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hey everybody before we get to this

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week's episode I have to take a moment

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to send all my thoughts and well wishes

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to all of you during this extremely

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challenging time Kovan 19 has taken us

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all by complete and utter surprise and

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none of us are quite sure how to react

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what to do or where this is all heading

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but rest assured I will keep making

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podcasts if you'll keep listening it's

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the least I can do to try to keep your

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minds and frankly my own off of kovat 19

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for just an hour so thank you for still

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being here thank you for still

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supporting somewhere in the skies please

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stay healthy stay safe and we will get

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through this we always do and now let's

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get back to UFOs this is somewhere in

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the skies the brains

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[Music]

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Chris we have been on the podcast

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periphery with one another for a while

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now and in a field where the landscape

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is constantly changing it's good to just

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sit down and have a conversation amongst

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mutual colleagues so thank you so much

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for joining me today on somewhere in the

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skies yeah it's good to finally be here

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I've been nibbling at your ankles for so

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goddamn long I know man and finally it

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is happening hey I take full

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responsibility for that trust me I do I

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was telling you how fair I just hired an

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assistant so finally I'm gonna be able

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to schedule not just my podcast but my

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life in general so no this has been a

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long time coming but I know it's gonna

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be awesome because yeah like I said I've

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been following your work for a while

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like this into your podcast and I wanted

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to get a feel for your thoughts on a lot

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of this stuff that you and I have in

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common when it comes to the UFO topic

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and um I want to talk about your show

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too but before we do that I gotta ask

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kind of your origin story if we're gonna

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go the comic book route what what got

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you first interested in the UFO topic

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have you ever had any experiences that

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you'd be willing to share with us or

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what is your origin story well I've

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always had like an interest in

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paranormal stuff I've always been a big

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prior of just you know science fiction I

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love comic books I grew up with

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superheroes so the idea that there are

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extraordinary people and extraordinary

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experiences out there you know greatly

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excited me what really interests me most

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about the paranormal and stuff like that

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are you know not just the phenomenon but

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the character's name really like the the

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you know like the greys and stuff like

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the individual critters and characters

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that populate the the phenomenon in the

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field you know not just the individual

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races but also you know the people

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involved and stuff like that and I just

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see them all as you know populating like

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different types of superheroes in a big

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old comic book of life I love that man

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that's such a good way to put it we are

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kind of characters in this this big

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cosmic movie or comic book as it were so

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that's really cool to hear

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well how about do you have any personal

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experiences specifically related to UFOs

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you'd be willing to share with us but if

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not I completely understand but yeah

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look at through your passion and

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unfortunately not I most I've had

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paranormal experiences but within the

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realms of UFOs or alien abduction

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phenomena

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nothing specific I've had like sleep

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paralysis episodes that I've recognized

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a sleep paralysis those are there even

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those were like comically disappointing

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because everyone has you know they have

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Gray's or they have shadow people or

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monsters and stuff like that instead

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mine were during daylight where I had

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would have a sleep paralysis episode and

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instead what would come into my room

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wasn't you know a monster or alien or or

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any kind of cryptid creature that I

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should be familiar with instead it was

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well how do I do best describe this

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without offending people you see you

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know what people of walmart is right oh

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yeah very well okay the the detta scens

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of the people of walmart would come into

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my room shift shuffle through my stank's

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you know they would open doors and even

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open doors that in walls that there were

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no doors sort of this was weird thing

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and then every now and then they would

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look at me you know to make sure that

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I'm not getting up and moving and stuff

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like that and of course I'm paralyzed

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with that my body can't move and then

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there's this overwhelming sense of fear

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even though I know I'm not supposed to

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be afraid of anything I know it's in it

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that this is a an episode but I you

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still get the wash over of that emotion

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and then they would you know eventually

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make themselves you know out of the door

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out of the door and that that happened

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to me twice and then I would when I

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would regain control of my body I would

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get up and I'd look around and nothing

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was shuffled with nothing was was you

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know disturbed all of my alarms and

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locks were fastened all from within the

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inside there was no way anyone could

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have gotten in and gotten out so even

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with that you know the experience is

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still unsettling yeah

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absolutely I mean I couldn't only

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imagine I think I personally have had

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one experience in my life in terms of

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sleep paralysis and then never again

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which I always thought this is like a

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chronic thing like people would get it

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constantly but and then I read that no

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it can only happen one time for some

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people so that's that's interesting is

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that something that you you deal with on

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a consistent rate or was this just like

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at one certain point in your life I

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think it was just maybe just the one or

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two times so there is some times where I

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can feel it coming on but I know how to

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get myself out of it like right away and

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usually it's when I just have trouble

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sleeping or something like that it's not

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a it's not a constant it's nothing that

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you know plagues my life as it would

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with some people but that's probably the

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closest thing I've had to a personal

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paranormal experience I mean I've had

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other paranormal experiences that were

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like more more like like unrelated to

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like UFOs and stuff there was one

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instance where I would hear as I was

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growing up I would hear my mother's

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voice calling for me and and the thing

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is sometimes even when my mother wasn't

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in the house like I remember one time my

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mother was out in the yard you know

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doing yard work and and tending to her

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garden and stuff like that and I heard

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her call for me you know and and it was

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a call like like a call for help but not

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distress more like a call for help like

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she needs help like getting a can of

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beans off the top shelf or opening a

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pickle jar something like that you know

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and so I would come out and I'd look for

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her as I got great she's not here then

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I'd opened this the sliding glass door

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which makes a loud obnoxious noise and I

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pick my head out and asked if she called

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and of course she didn't and and any

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time I would experience something like

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that or anything remotely strange she

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would always say oh that's your guardian

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angel as a way of I guess helping me to

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not freak me out or whatever yeah yeah

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but what was weird is that you know I

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mean I heard her voice I distinctly

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heard her voice and and she was like

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outside you know with the door closed if

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she if she was going to open the door I

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would have heard the door open because

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it makes a loud scratching noise

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because that's just how the sliding

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glass doors work but that you know that

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course turned out to be you know

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something that was just the to this day

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still puzzles me as to how that could

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have happened yeah welcome to my life

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and so many others who have had weird

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paranormal experiences I totally get him

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man

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well I uh I was listening to one of your

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your episodes around the time when alien

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Caan was happening in Dallas and I saw

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that you had actually gone there and I

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wasn't able to make it that's the only

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alien god I've missed so far but um what

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was that experience like you're kind of

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my only conduit into that event I don't

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really know anyone else that attended

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yeah so what was that like and uh maybe

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maybe could you give us some your most

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memorable experiences while you were

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there for me it was partially like

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overwhelming I mean I've been to

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paranormal events before I've been to

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you know you know little UFO meetups and

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stuff like that and little paranormal

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conventions that we have San Antonio is

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probably like a horror is our thing we

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do horror better than anyone else but we

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have so many horror and horror

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conventions just out the wazoo you can

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fight a paranormal or horror convention

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you know within within our rocks throw

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they're just they're just up here all

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the time but when I went to Dallas for

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down there at the Civic Center I was

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overwhelmed there were so many people

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there I mean I think it was and myself I

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was with my my companion Leslie she's

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friend of mine she's like my little

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sister she comes with with me and and

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she me and her are like you know going

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around this place she's into big into

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aliens that she knows who all these

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people are and I'm like and I'm like uh

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the one guy I wanted to see is not here

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so I'm just kind of milling around I

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make do and and I I'm just I'm just hi

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I'm just looking around and and there's

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just so many people into so many things

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and you know it almost has that vibe of

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like a comic-con but not really I mean

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not many people like maybe I think out

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of all of them like maybe

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dozen people were dressed up but most of

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the people they just had the t-shirts

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and the little deals on there on their

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heads and and it was like so many people

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just regular people that were interested

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in this and and it was a bit

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overwhelming I because me and Leslie

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because we we have a background in

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conventions and we were like staff at

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various conventions we kind of know who

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to talk to and who to ask to get sort of

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the real story of what's going on so we

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would talk to some of the staff and

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stuff like that and she would ask around

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and what she got back for me is that

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they were a bit overwhelmed by the

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numbers they had like I think they had a

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larger turnout then then I think what

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was the other one la la there was

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Baltimore Wow they out that way that's

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great I don't know if they did LA but

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I'm pretty sure they outdid Baltimore

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okay I think it was probably like the

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largest one that they had seen so far

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but it got to the point that that they

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that they were filling up the panel

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rooms and these panel rooms were like

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set up for like a thousand plus people

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and they had lines out the door and one

271
00:11:23,329 --> 00:11:21,089
of the major complaints was it you know

272
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they were there weren't enough panels or

273
00:11:27,319 --> 00:11:26,009
not not enough room in the panels but

274
00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:27,329
the thing is you know it's like there

275
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:28,740
were like so many thousands of people

276
00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:31,920
there I don't know what the exact

277
00:11:37,759 --> 00:11:33,929
numbers were I don't think we ever got a

278
00:11:40,910 --> 00:11:37,769
final count but it was whatever it was

279
00:11:43,220 --> 00:11:40,920
that they were prepared for they

280
00:11:46,369 --> 00:11:43,230
probably got like two or three times as

281
00:11:50,030 --> 00:11:46,379
many attendees in that that they were

282
00:11:52,369 --> 00:11:50,040
prepared to handle so they had to do

283
00:11:54,410 --> 00:11:52,379
like a lot of creative stuff just to get

284
00:11:56,929 --> 00:11:54,420
people in just to get people into these

285
00:11:59,119 --> 00:11:56,939
panels and you know I mean the panels

286
00:12:01,790 --> 00:11:59,129
were great uh you know like like I said

287
00:12:03,949 --> 00:12:01,800
Leslie she got a picture with uh like

288
00:12:06,079 --> 00:12:03,959
what did the hair guy cyka cyka Louis

289
00:12:09,139 --> 00:12:06,089
yeah yeah she got a picture with him

290
00:12:12,860 --> 00:12:09,149
doing doing the meme stuff and and she

291
00:12:14,179 --> 00:12:12,870
had a blast she had a blast so I fun

292
00:12:16,519 --> 00:12:14,189
just sitting and talking to people that

293
00:12:18,439 --> 00:12:16,529
I normally don't get to run into a lot

294
00:12:20,210 --> 00:12:18,449
of you know I would just sit down and

295
00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:20,220
you know just have conversations with

296
00:12:23,690 --> 00:12:22,110
just regular people and some

297
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:23,700
some of the guests and the attendees

298
00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:25,410
would come down and I'd recognize a few

299
00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:28,230
of them that I had met prior and we

300
00:12:32,569 --> 00:12:29,910
would just sit and catch up and have

301
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:32,579
conversations and it was definitely an

302
00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:35,010
over overwhelming is the only way that I

303
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:37,140
could describe it yeah that's a good way

304
00:12:41,180 --> 00:12:38,730
to put it when I went to my first one

305
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:41,190
and I think it was Pasadena California I

306
00:12:43,940 --> 00:12:42,930
had no idea what to expect either I

307
00:12:46,699 --> 00:12:43,950
thought it'd be like one of these a

308
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:46,709
little UFO you know conferences and I

309
00:12:51,860 --> 00:12:49,410
show up and there's just like thousands

310
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:51,870
of people there and you're just like how

311
00:12:57,650 --> 00:12:54,720
how are these many people talking about

312
00:13:00,620 --> 00:12:57,660
UFOs and ancient aliens and the

313
00:13:03,610 --> 00:13:00,630
paranormal and I didn't know about it so

314
00:13:06,889 --> 00:13:03,620
that goes to show how much I think

315
00:13:09,470 --> 00:13:06,899
ancient aliens has sort of bled into the

316
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:09,480
mainstream it becomes such a big thing

317
00:13:15,980 --> 00:13:13,200
so kind of moving from a link on who you

318
00:13:19,009 --> 00:13:15,990
know ancient aliens TV show produces

319
00:13:21,410 --> 00:13:19,019
that the alien cons I believe what are

320
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:21,420
your thoughts on the ancient alien

321
00:13:26,420 --> 00:13:24,720
theory Chris does it hold up does it

322
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:26,430
help or doesn't hinder the UFO

323
00:13:30,590 --> 00:13:28,290
conversation in your opinion what do you

324
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:30,600
think well what I think hinders the

325
00:13:35,689 --> 00:13:34,050
conversation is I know you and I think

326
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:35,699
in one of your prior interviews you and

327
00:13:39,980 --> 00:13:37,680
John Tenney and I'm not trying to crap

328
00:13:42,139 --> 00:13:39,990
on you guys or get on get on your case

329
00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:42,149
but I think there's this meme going

330
00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:43,800
around that says you know because white

331
00:13:49,340 --> 00:13:46,670
people didn't build it there for aliens

332
00:13:51,530 --> 00:13:49,350
and I understand that people try to try

333
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:51,540
to push this sort of racial overtone of

334
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:54,480
you know of the this sort of like you

335
00:13:59,180 --> 00:13:57,120
know because the english-speaking you

336
00:14:02,540 --> 00:13:59,190
know this white gendered white people

337
00:14:04,730 --> 00:14:02,550
don't know this that therefore that it's

338
00:14:09,079 --> 00:14:04,740
somehow demeans brown people you know

339
00:14:10,759 --> 00:14:09,089
and culture and and you know indigenous

340
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:10,769
folks and the thing is you know I'm like

341
00:14:16,130 --> 00:14:13,410
part indigenous myself I you know I'm

342
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,140
like I'm like interracial so I'm like

343
00:14:20,689 --> 00:14:18,720
part Mexican part white so you know I

344
00:14:22,250 --> 00:14:20,699
mean not not to draw straws or get into

345
00:14:24,769 --> 00:14:22,260
a pissing contest but I can pretty much

346
00:14:27,259 --> 00:14:24,779
say to anybody hey I out marginalize you

347
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:27,269
by just being biracial but the thing is

348
00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:29,970
is that what I feel is that the thing is

349
00:14:34,490 --> 00:14:32,670
they say that about everything they say

350
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:34,500
that about Stonehenge I'm pretty sure

351
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:35,450
that there's even

352
00:14:39,730 --> 00:14:37,250
episode out there saying that gee I

353
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:39,740
wonder if Mordred was a hybrid you know

354
00:14:45,130 --> 00:14:42,320
type of stuff like that you know or was

355
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:45,140
the was it was the lady in the lake a

356
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:47,690
gray or something like that you know and

357
00:14:52,210 --> 00:14:49,730
and it's it's like they say that about

358
00:14:54,330 --> 00:14:52,220
everything that's their thing it's just

359
00:14:56,740 --> 00:14:54,340
it's just it's a gimmick it works

360
00:14:59,380 --> 00:14:56,750
because the numbers showed us that it

361
00:15:02,230 --> 00:14:59,390
does and and I think it's just you know

362
00:15:05,260 --> 00:15:02,240
I think that's just being you know a bit

363
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:05,270
culturally irresponsible too to try to

364
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:07,130
throw that that you know that these

365
00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:09,770
people are racist because X and I'm like

366
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:11,920
no that that's just not the case I

367
00:15:18,070 --> 00:15:15,530
mentally disagree with that the thing is

368
00:15:20,740 --> 00:15:18,080
is though is that what I feel hurts us

369
00:15:22,210 --> 00:15:20,750
is that you know I mean or what let me

370
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:22,220
talk about what helps us what helps us

371
00:15:27,790 --> 00:15:25,370
is that it does introduce people to new

372
00:15:29,380 --> 00:15:27,800
cultures it does introduce people around

373
00:15:32,740 --> 00:15:29,390
the world whether it's through the lens

374
00:15:34,930 --> 00:15:32,750
of alien abduction or add the the alien

375
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:34,940
theory they're still being exposed to

376
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:36,770
two cultures they're still being exposed

377
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:38,720
to new and interesting things that they

378
00:15:45,790 --> 00:15:41,810
probably wouldn't you know be exposed to

379
00:15:48,010 --> 00:15:45,800
otherwise and I see that as a win now as

380
00:15:50,140 --> 00:15:48,020
far as you know the the cultural stuff

381
00:15:51,580 --> 00:15:50,150
like that I do have take issue and

382
00:15:56,220 --> 00:15:51,590
umbrage with that on the grounds of

383
00:15:59,140 --> 00:15:56,230
we're mostly exposed to english-speaking

384
00:16:03,490 --> 00:15:59,150
narratives because that's that's our

385
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:03,500
fault because we're I mean I mean we all

386
00:16:06,190 --> 00:16:04,730
speak English and stuff like that

387
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:06,200
there's an entire world out there that

388
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:08,690
produces its own content I was in

389
00:16:13,210 --> 00:16:11,330
contact with a man he was producing a

390
00:16:17,050 --> 00:16:13,220
paranormal series a local paranormal

391
00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:17,060
series and he was hiring for hosts for

392
00:16:23,290 --> 00:16:18,710
the series he had gotten himself he was

393
00:16:25,450 --> 00:16:23,300
making a dual dual language production

394
00:16:27,820 --> 00:16:25,460
where he had where he was producing a

395
00:16:29,830 --> 00:16:27,830
spanish-language version and he was

396
00:16:32,260 --> 00:16:29,840
producing an english-language version I

397
00:16:33,550 --> 00:16:32,270
think he got the Spanish he got the

398
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:33,560
hosts and stuff for the spanish-language

399
00:16:37,210 --> 00:16:35,570
version down but he was still looking

400
00:16:40,060 --> 00:16:37,220
for like a host for an English language

401
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:40,070
version that I the last time I spoke to

402
00:16:42,910 --> 00:16:41,330
him and I hadn't talked to him in like a

403
00:16:45,220 --> 00:16:42,920
few years and I need to hit him up and

404
00:16:47,980 --> 00:16:45,230
see you know how that's going but as far

405
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:47,990
as you know the content out there I mean

406
00:16:50,190 --> 00:16:48,710
we

407
00:16:52,540 --> 00:16:50,200
sort of have this idea that you know

408
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:52,550
that everything that we're seeing

409
00:16:59,560 --> 00:16:55,610
everything through a a certain about

410
00:17:02,230 --> 00:16:59,570
white person lens but it it's just there

411
00:17:03,490 --> 00:17:02,240
is there are brown people and black

412
00:17:05,140 --> 00:17:03,500
people out there producing their own

413
00:17:06,970 --> 00:17:05,150
content you know giving their

414
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:06,980
perspectives and stuff like that we

415
00:17:10,449 --> 00:17:08,690
can't pretend that they're not out there

416
00:17:13,329 --> 00:17:10,459
just because we don't see them in the

417
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:13,339
mainstream and and it is a bit you know

418
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:15,050
eventually they'll they'll make their

419
00:17:19,630 --> 00:17:16,880
way into mainstream and stuff like that

420
00:17:21,449 --> 00:17:19,640
and we got to support them but we also

421
00:17:24,870 --> 00:17:21,459
at the same time can't you know

422
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:24,880
patronize them on the basis of just

423
00:17:29,250 --> 00:17:26,570
superficially because then that's

424
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:29,260
artificial and and it's disingenuous

425
00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:31,970
disingenuous to their efforts but you

426
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:33,950
know I mean I in one of my earlier

427
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:35,120
interviews I had interviewed another

428
00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:38,960
local podcaster who had who you know he

429
00:17:45,220 --> 00:17:42,230
was talking to a lot of the you know he

430
00:17:48,010 --> 00:17:45,230
was a brown person himself and and he

431
00:17:49,690 --> 00:17:48,020
was talking to other people that you

432
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:49,700
know let's face it the white people

433
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:52,130
aren't going to talk to and we had

434
00:17:58,060 --> 00:17:55,850
talked about that and and his is his

435
00:18:01,000 --> 00:17:58,070
podcast is uh it's called chic onyx

436
00:18:02,620 --> 00:18:01,010
versus aliens and he you know he focuses

437
00:18:04,330 --> 00:18:02,630
on you know occult and paranormal and

438
00:18:05,410 --> 00:18:04,340
stuff like that in cryptozoology and all

439
00:18:08,740 --> 00:18:05,420
that stuff all the kind of stuff

440
00:18:11,020 --> 00:18:08,750
from-from perspectives of the person of

441
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:11,030
color and there's also other shows like

442
00:18:16,030 --> 00:18:13,520
they're like like like a mysterious

443
00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:16,040
radio and and stuff with it's hosted by

444
00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:17,840
k-town and she's a woman of color who

445
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:19,910
you know doesn't produces her own

446
00:18:24,190 --> 00:18:22,130
content and stuff like that so the idea

447
00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:24,200
that it's just white people out there

448
00:18:29,650 --> 00:18:26,000
just doing this and saying this stuff is

449
00:18:32,290 --> 00:18:29,660
absolutely ridiculous and and we you

450
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:32,300
know we got like a whole mix of people

451
00:18:37,420 --> 00:18:34,250
out there and and just because there

452
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:37,430
aren't that many you know I mean we

453
00:18:44,530 --> 00:18:41,570
can't like you can't force it whatever

454
00:18:46,210 --> 00:18:44,540
it is that you want and because then

455
00:18:48,490 --> 00:18:46,220
you're you're just you know you're

456
00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:48,500
you're you're sort of like putting

457
00:18:53,020 --> 00:18:50,420
pressure on people to produce or

458
00:18:55,870 --> 00:18:53,030
whatever it is it's just it comes off

459
00:18:58,120 --> 00:18:55,880
just patronizing and disingenuous but in

460
00:19:00,340 --> 00:18:58,130
no way am i saying you know don't listen

461
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:00,350
to them because X you know and and I'm

462
00:19:04,510 --> 00:19:02,210
not I'm not getting out that I'm just

463
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:04,520
that the stuff is out there we're just

464
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:07,010
not if we're not if you don't see it out

465
00:19:13,090 --> 00:19:10,490
there then go look for it yeah yeah do

466
00:19:15,970 --> 00:19:13,100
the work yeah but don't complain that it

467
00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:15,980
isn't there because it's not it is there

468
00:19:20,290 --> 00:19:17,900
I just take issue with that because I

469
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:20,300
grew up in a in a biracial background

470
00:19:25,330 --> 00:19:22,970
you know so I'm like white and Hispanic

471
00:19:27,130 --> 00:19:25,340
and the thing is you know I mean I was

472
00:19:29,260 --> 00:19:27,140
never really accepted by both cultures

473
00:19:31,030 --> 00:19:29,270
you know at least not in high school but

474
00:19:32,530 --> 00:19:31,040
outside of that you know it's just

475
00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:32,540
something that I've had to deal with it

476
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:34,960
sort of left this chip on my shoulder I

477
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:37,370
can't be the judge of that everyone's

478
00:19:41,740 --> 00:19:39,890
got their own journey and I totally

479
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:41,750
respect that and I'm glad to hear you

480
00:19:45,490 --> 00:19:43,130
say that because I think you're right

481
00:19:49,390 --> 00:19:45,500
instead of just focusing on the bad like

482
00:19:51,910 --> 00:19:49,400
let's let's be allies to to to people

483
00:19:54,220 --> 00:19:51,920
who whose voices may not be out there as

484
00:19:56,050 --> 00:19:54,230
much and let's let's let's do it let's

485
00:19:59,800 --> 00:19:56,060
just work together right I don't know

486
00:20:02,350 --> 00:19:59,810
yeah speaking of that Chris um podcasts

487
00:20:04,540 --> 00:20:02,360
conspire a theory man and he we got it

488
00:20:07,390 --> 00:20:04,550
we got a elephant in the room you host

489
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:07,400
your own podcast and I love your logo by

490
00:20:11,610 --> 00:20:09,200
the way so welcome to how that came

491
00:20:13,870 --> 00:20:11,620
about but when did you start the show

492
00:20:17,290 --> 00:20:13,880
what made you want to do your own thing

493
00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:17,300
make a podcast and yeah what is conspire

494
00:20:23,650 --> 00:20:19,310
a theory all about when I when I first

495
00:20:26,410 --> 00:20:23,660
started doing my own podcast I would I

496
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:26,420
got my start I had a friend who he works

497
00:20:30,220 --> 00:20:28,490
at in New York now easy where he's one

498
00:20:32,020 --> 00:20:30,230
of the she works in one of the several

499
00:20:35,470 --> 00:20:32,030
of the newsrooms down there

500
00:20:38,290 --> 00:20:35,480
he had a gaming podcast called original

501
00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:38,300
gamer and I would come on as color

502
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:40,310
commentary basically he would bring me

503
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:43,130
on just you know trash talk you know

504
00:20:47,710 --> 00:20:46,010
with whatever gaming subject that we

505
00:20:49,930 --> 00:20:47,720
would talk about you know because one of

506
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:49,940
my background said I am a huge fan of

507
00:20:53,710 --> 00:20:52,250
video games and I and I love video games

508
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:53,720
and stuff like that but we were talking

509
00:20:59,020 --> 00:20:55,970
about that and then I had another friend

510
00:21:01,570 --> 00:20:59,030
who we would do Khan reviews for his

511
00:21:03,490 --> 00:21:01,580
YouTube podcast and I was the hatchet

512
00:21:05,290 --> 00:21:03,500
man for that so he would bring me in

513
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:05,300
we've talked about conventions and stuff

514
00:21:08,380 --> 00:21:07,310
like that and then I would come in you

515
00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:08,390
know and talk about you know all the

516
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:10,070
negatives and stuff like that you know

517
00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:12,080
break it down he would set him up I

518
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:13,760
would break him down because they were

519
00:21:15,580 --> 00:21:15,200
doing their own shows and I was doing on

520
00:21:17,289 --> 00:21:15,590
the pot

521
00:21:20,019 --> 00:21:17,299
stuff it's like well there's all these

522
00:21:22,779 --> 00:21:20,029
topics that I want to talk about but the

523
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:22,789
the wall that I would run into is well

524
00:21:27,279 --> 00:21:25,730
this isn't that kind of a show so

525
00:21:28,899 --> 00:21:27,289
eventually I ran into a point where it's

526
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:28,909
like I'm gonna if I want to talk all

527
00:21:34,690 --> 00:21:31,610
these subjects and cover these topics I

528
00:21:37,450 --> 00:21:34,700
have to produce my own show and I really

529
00:21:39,070 --> 00:21:37,460
had no idea how to do it so you know

530
00:21:42,250 --> 00:21:39,080
luckily my friends were very supportive

531
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:42,260
I mean even uh my friend Oscar Gonzales

532
00:21:46,419 --> 00:21:44,570
he he was a he was running original

533
00:21:48,970 --> 00:21:46,429
gamer he sold me his old podcasting

534
00:21:50,590 --> 00:21:48,980
equipment and and I used like most of it

535
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:50,600
to this day because it's it's just good

536
00:21:55,330 --> 00:21:52,880
equipment and then my other friend from

537
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:55,340
the YouTube stuff Edsel is he you know

538
00:21:58,389 --> 00:21:56,960
taught me some of the basics as far as

539
00:22:00,399 --> 00:21:58,399
you know sound engineering and all that

540
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:00,409
stuff like that so that way my podcast

541
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:02,210
doesn't sound like crap you know just

542
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:04,490
some of the basics on how to how to deal

543
00:22:07,299 --> 00:22:05,840
with stuff you know because there are

544
00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:07,309
some stuff that I just can't help but

545
00:22:13,090 --> 00:22:11,809
you know a lot of it you can help so you

546
00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:13,100
know learning to do with that and then I

547
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:14,510
finally got myself out and then I was

548
00:22:18,639 --> 00:22:16,159
like okay now I got a good name the

549
00:22:21,010 --> 00:22:18,649
first name I went for was conspiracy REE

550
00:22:24,549 --> 00:22:21,020
but then I looked it up and I saw that

551
00:22:27,549 --> 00:22:24,559
all the Google leads led it to to a

552
00:22:31,269 --> 00:22:27,559
homoerotic fanfiction for Saturday

553
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:31,279
morning cartoons I don't understand how

554
00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:34,250
that works but that's that's where all

555
00:22:38,529 --> 00:22:36,529
the all the all the search engines

556
00:22:40,539 --> 00:22:38,539
pointed it to when I would type in

557
00:22:43,149 --> 00:22:40,549
conspirator you would go to Homer Rock

558
00:22:46,180 --> 00:22:43,159
fanfic say so

559
00:22:48,940 --> 00:22:46,190
I thought I don't want to if I do if I

560
00:22:51,460 --> 00:22:48,950
name my podcast that then people are

561
00:22:54,250 --> 00:22:51,470
going to expect that because that that

562
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:54,260
I'm gonna mislead my audience so I I

563
00:22:59,950 --> 00:22:56,000
kind of like you know because it's not a

564
00:23:02,440 --> 00:22:59,960
fan it's it it's not that the thing is

565
00:23:04,419 --> 00:23:02,450
is that so I decided with conspire a

566
00:23:06,669 --> 00:23:04,429
theory you know I figured I'd okay I'll

567
00:23:08,019 --> 00:23:06,679
do that and then I just talk about

568
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:08,029
whatever it is I want to talk about I

569
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:10,010
have you know basically the three topics

570
00:23:14,740 --> 00:23:13,370
I go to are paranormal or I'll do fandom

571
00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:14,750
stuff where I could talk about you know

572
00:23:18,850 --> 00:23:17,360
video games comic books fun stuff and

573
00:23:21,070 --> 00:23:18,860
then I'll have like another hot topic

574
00:23:24,220 --> 00:23:21,080
which is you know basically just vulgar

575
00:23:26,169 --> 00:23:24,230
legion of skanks type of stuff where

576
00:23:28,990 --> 00:23:26,179
it's just me trying to do vulgar comedy

577
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:29,000
I don't do those as much as I do anymore

578
00:23:31,930 --> 00:23:29,360
but

579
00:23:33,549 --> 00:23:31,940
you know every now and then I have to do

580
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:33,559
that because it's like it's just it's

581
00:23:43,150 --> 00:23:36,290
like it's sort of like a cleansing thing

582
00:23:45,370 --> 00:23:43,160
for me is to do longer comedy and I just

583
00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:45,380
do that and you know where I'll discuss

584
00:23:48,940 --> 00:23:47,120
like whatever that whatever is in the

585
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:48,950
headlines that's crazy right now and

586
00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:53,360
I'll just do a show on that I've gotten

587
00:23:57,130 --> 00:23:54,799
a lot of help in support in the first

588
00:23:59,020 --> 00:23:57,140
year you know a lot of it was me just

589
00:24:01,240 --> 00:23:59,030
hitting up my friends was just people

590
00:24:02,530 --> 00:24:01,250
that I knew you know people that I that

591
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:02,540
I could talk to that we're willing to

592
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:06,110
get on to to discuss that and I designed

593
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:08,000
the logo and did it myself because I do

594
00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:09,710
you know graphic art and stuff like that

595
00:24:13,930 --> 00:24:11,809
so I chose a fox a little white arctic

596
00:24:15,430 --> 00:24:13,940
fox because you know that's sort of like

597
00:24:18,909 --> 00:24:15,440
a plane to the the trickster element

598
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:18,919
because in Japanese legend they have the

599
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:21,679
kitsune II which is or at the kitsune

600
00:24:25,150 --> 00:24:23,570
which is a sort of Fox spirit that

601
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:25,160
embellishes the trickster dumb of

602
00:24:30,250 --> 00:24:28,130
whatever is that's paranormal phenomenon

603
00:24:33,310 --> 00:24:30,260
it's and that was sort of the embodiment

604
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:33,320
of that so that was sort of a that was

605
00:24:39,580 --> 00:24:36,890
sort of my mascot and my logo and from

606
00:24:41,799 --> 00:24:39,590
from then on you know I've done like I

607
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:41,809
basically seek out people that you know

608
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:44,090
this all pretty much started with with I

609
00:24:47,230 --> 00:24:45,770
would have these I would go to these

610
00:24:48,450 --> 00:24:47,240
conventions I would run into a man

611
00:24:51,220 --> 00:24:48,460
called Ken Gerhard

612
00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:51,230
he me and him would have some of the

613
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:54,710
most lengthy conversations we would go

614
00:24:58,900 --> 00:24:56,570
for like 45 minutes just talking about

615
00:25:00,130 --> 00:24:58,910
research and and and cryptids and lower

616
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:00,140
and stuff like that they were so

617
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:02,090
fascinating and I'm like I gotta get

618
00:25:05,380 --> 00:25:03,710
this on tape I gotta share these

619
00:25:06,970 --> 00:25:05,390
conversations with people because I feel

620
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:06,980
like they're so insightful and good and

621
00:25:12,010 --> 00:25:09,440
and he's saying all this cool

622
00:25:13,630 --> 00:25:12,020
interesting stuff and so many times I

623
00:25:16,419 --> 00:25:13,640
would listen to podcasts I only hear

624
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:16,429
people talk and and you know every done

625
00:25:21,010 --> 00:25:19,010
that it's like you know I want to get my

626
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:21,020
foot in the door I want to there's like

627
00:25:24,610 --> 00:25:22,640
a question that maybe I want to ask that

628
00:25:26,409 --> 00:25:24,620
wasn't brought up or I would hear

629
00:25:29,530 --> 00:25:26,419
something in that and I'd hear like a

630
00:25:31,570 --> 00:25:29,540
parallel of something else that that you

631
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:31,580
know like sometimes I kind of like want

632
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:33,410
my turn with these people with these

633
00:25:39,250 --> 00:25:36,290
fascinating people out there so it's

634
00:25:41,049 --> 00:25:39,260
really just just a chance for me to have

635
00:25:43,020 --> 00:25:41,059
a chance to talk with interesting and

636
00:25:45,450 --> 00:25:43,030
cool people speaking of that

637
00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:45,460
there are any guests that really stuck

638
00:25:49,950 --> 00:25:47,590
out your conversations that like

639
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:49,960
completely blew your mind I mean they

640
00:25:54,210 --> 00:25:52,330
don't have to be ufo-related we are the

641
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:54,220
UFO podcast but I know you cover a lot

642
00:25:57,660 --> 00:25:56,080
of different topics yeah what are some

643
00:26:00,210 --> 00:25:57,670
of your most like memorable guests

644
00:26:02,420 --> 00:26:00,220
you've had on well one that I felt it

645
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:02,430
was a personal cornerstone for me was

646
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:04,690
was actually I listened to your show a

647
00:26:12,150 --> 00:26:07,930
lot I've been listening to you since the

648
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:12,160
since you were on you're on into the

649
00:26:15,150 --> 00:26:13,090
fray oh wow

650
00:26:16,530 --> 00:26:15,160
that's awesome I think the the first

651
00:26:18,660 --> 00:26:16,540
episode that I heard that you were on

652
00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:18,670
was the kid in black episode because I

653
00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:21,310
was like on a big kid in black fix and I

654
00:26:25,980 --> 00:26:24,310
needed to save my appetites and on that

655
00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:25,990
episode it's infamous because you

656
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:28,270
Shannon and Sam only talk about black

657
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:31,090
eye kids for like eight minutes but the

658
00:26:35,370 --> 00:26:33,010
personalities of all the people you know

659
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:35,380
was enough to keep me coming back okay

660
00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:37,210
so I definitely enjoy the show I was

661
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:38,440
listening to you since you started your

662
00:26:43,860 --> 00:26:41,530
auxilary which eventually evolved into

663
00:26:45,270 --> 00:26:43,870
what you're doing now but one of the

664
00:26:49,890 --> 00:26:45,280
things that stuck out for me especially

665
00:26:51,690 --> 00:26:49,900
with your book and other other podcast

666
00:26:54,330 --> 00:26:51,700
hosts they have this thing where it's

667
00:26:55,530 --> 00:26:54,340
like oh I've got the perfect or not the

668
00:26:58,170 --> 00:26:55,540
perfect but they all say I have my own

669
00:27:00,270 --> 00:26:58,180
personal [\h__\h] meter I can tell when

670
00:27:02,610 --> 00:27:00,280
someone's you know when when someone's

671
00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:02,620
telling the truth to me or not and and

672
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:04,630
basically I it's just something about

673
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:07,810
that rubbed me the wrong way about how

674
00:27:12,990 --> 00:27:11,530
people try to vet their content how they

675
00:27:14,820 --> 00:27:13,000
try to vet their guests and stuff like

676
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:14,830
that and something just didn't sit right

677
00:27:22,890 --> 00:27:20,170
with me so and I'm like are is everybody

678
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:22,900
just relying on you know poker tales

679
00:27:29,310 --> 00:27:25,330
just to try to bet they're there whether

680
00:27:30,990 --> 00:27:29,320
or not try to vet their the experiencers

681
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:31,000
or the guests on whether or not they're

682
00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:33,120
telling the truth or not you know so I

683
00:27:39,180 --> 00:27:36,130
when I had spoken to I had met this man

684
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:39,190
his name was Greg Lawson Greg Lawson

685
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:43,510
he's a local he's he's based out of

686
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:46,690
Austin so I had met him at a convention

687
00:27:52,140 --> 00:27:48,730
and he wrote this book called you know

688
00:27:55,050 --> 00:27:52,150
parallel but detective and he has this

689
00:27:56,390 --> 00:27:55,060
long history with working with the LAPD

690
00:27:58,100 --> 00:27:56,400
and and

691
00:28:01,610 --> 00:27:58,110
I mean not the Ellie Austin Police

692
00:28:03,670 --> 00:28:01,620
Department and he works he's done like a

693
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:03,680
one of the things that he had done was

694
00:28:08,210 --> 00:28:06,240
negotiation so I figured okay this is

695
00:28:10,610 --> 00:28:08,220
the perfect guy to talk to about you

696
00:28:12,770 --> 00:28:10,620
know like how do people's personal

697
00:28:14,990 --> 00:28:12,780
[\h__\h] meters really measure up to

698
00:28:17,630 --> 00:28:15,000
actual police negotiation where it's

699
00:28:20,030 --> 00:28:17,640
like a lesson a death and life situation

700
00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:20,040
yeah you know I want to find out I want

701
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:21,120
to find out I did that when I

702
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:22,770
interviewed him I had interviewed him

703
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:25,650
specifically to talk about to bring it

704
00:28:30,410 --> 00:28:27,690
up during the interview about you know

705
00:28:32,810 --> 00:28:30,420
how can someone tell if someone's

706
00:28:35,330 --> 00:28:32,820
telling the truth how accurate is that

707
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:35,340
and he pretty much laid it down for me

708
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:37,650
about all of the stuff that people have

709
00:28:42,020 --> 00:28:39,120
to go through you know he even went over

710
00:28:43,910 --> 00:28:42,030
the the ponytails like you know and what

711
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:43,920
we pretty much came to is that well you

712
00:28:47,870 --> 00:28:46,320
know even though you know someone could

713
00:28:49,970 --> 00:28:47,880
be telling the truth and they could be a

714
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:49,980
terrible storyteller whereas someone

715
00:28:54,770 --> 00:28:52,320
could be totally lying and be a great

716
00:28:56,180 --> 00:28:54,780
storyteller you know and it's just it's

717
00:28:58,490 --> 00:28:56,190
one of those things where you know I

718
00:29:00,560 --> 00:28:58,500
mean I understood it a little bit more I

719
00:29:03,230 --> 00:29:00,570
didn't I don't know that I got my

720
00:29:06,050 --> 00:29:03,240
definitive answer but that was just

721
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:06,060
something that I just I had to figure it

722
00:29:09,350 --> 00:29:07,890
out and since and that's been you know

723
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:09,360
definitely one of my favorite interviews

724
00:29:12,830 --> 00:29:11,490
and whenever I hear people talk to him

725
00:29:15,020 --> 00:29:12,840
and stuff like that yeah it's great and

726
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:15,030
wonderful but that time that I had with

727
00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:17,370
him I it was really it meant something

728
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:20,310
to me to really hash that out in you

729
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:21,510
know vetting the stuff and you know I

730
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:23,850
apply it to myself and everyone else so

731
00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:26,850
from then on I approach the situation of

732
00:29:30,020 --> 00:29:28,470
you know like whether or not someone is

733
00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:30,030
telling the truth or not I don't know

734
00:29:34,370 --> 00:29:31,860
there's no definitive way for me to tell

735
00:29:38,030 --> 00:29:34,380
or not especially with the abduction

736
00:29:40,910 --> 00:29:38,040
experiences but so long as the person

737
00:29:42,830 --> 00:29:40,920
can tell a good story and you know if

738
00:29:45,980 --> 00:29:42,840
they try to present evidence I'm gonna

739
00:29:48,740 --> 00:29:45,990
take a look at it seriously I think in

740
00:29:50,660 --> 00:29:48,750
one of the I did a three-part series

741
00:29:53,210 --> 00:29:50,670
with an interviewer with a man named

742
00:29:55,010 --> 00:29:53,220
Jack Carroll he he had like a

743
00:29:56,690 --> 00:29:55,020
fascinating story to tell I would meet

744
00:29:59,270 --> 00:29:56,700
him at the MUFON meetings and he would

745
00:30:02,300 --> 00:29:59,280
you know always tell a story and he was

746
00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:02,310
a great storyteller and he had all these

747
00:30:06,380 --> 00:30:04,380
remarkable experiences and then I met

748
00:30:08,060 --> 00:30:06,390
with him and me and him me and him have

749
00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:08,070
become you know good friends he's he's

750
00:30:10,499 --> 00:30:09,510
led an incredible life and he's an

751
00:30:13,049 --> 00:30:10,509
interesting pair

752
00:30:14,399 --> 00:30:13,059
and I would just listen to these stories

753
00:30:16,769 --> 00:30:14,409
and then at the end I would actually

754
00:30:18,629 --> 00:30:16,779
take a look at his evidence and what he

755
00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:18,639
had to produce and a lot of the evidence

756
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:21,190
it's not concrete it's not absolute but

757
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:22,720
for a lot of the people out there it

758
00:30:27,029 --> 00:30:25,090
gives them a sense of peace of mind and

759
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:27,039
I figured okay the oil if that's good

760
00:30:30,239 --> 00:30:28,720
enough for them then that's all that we

761
00:30:33,359 --> 00:30:30,249
have to do is so long as they can get

762
00:30:35,549 --> 00:30:33,369
like a peace of mind with their account

763
00:30:37,289 --> 00:30:35,559
with their encounter then that's all

764
00:30:39,330 --> 00:30:37,299
that we could hope for as far as the

765
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:39,340
like say with the Bigfoot and stuff like

766
00:30:43,049 --> 00:30:41,289
that yeah we all want the corpse you

767
00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:43,059
know and with the aliens yes I want to

768
00:30:47,129 --> 00:30:45,580
see a gray under glass and stuff like

769
00:30:50,060 --> 00:30:47,139
that I want to see all that stuff

770
00:30:52,499 --> 00:30:50,070
absolutely but as far as the the

771
00:30:54,869 --> 00:30:52,509
encounters you know if we don't have

772
00:30:57,060 --> 00:30:54,879
that then you know that's like well at

773
00:30:58,619 --> 00:30:57,070
least so long as we can we can expand on

774
00:30:59,850 --> 00:30:58,629
the lore and at least talk about it

775
00:31:01,680 --> 00:30:59,860
you know get something out of it cuz I

776
00:31:03,899 --> 00:31:01,690
still feel there's something valuable in

777
00:31:06,029 --> 00:31:03,909
in hearing some of these people out I

778
00:31:09,299 --> 00:31:06,039
mean they're you you have your sort of

779
00:31:11,129 --> 00:31:09,309
Roman ecchi and people who may have had

780
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:11,139
an encounter but then they decide to

781
00:31:15,659 --> 00:31:13,450
embellish it that's going to happen

782
00:31:18,749 --> 00:31:15,669
because that's just the nature of the

783
00:31:21,149 --> 00:31:18,759
culture that's just a human nature is

784
00:31:24,090 --> 00:31:21,159
gonna always step in because you know of

785
00:31:25,739 --> 00:31:24,100
course it is and it does muddy the

786
00:31:28,609 --> 00:31:25,749
waters but I still feel that there's

787
00:31:31,590 --> 00:31:28,619
something valuable to the experience I

788
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:31,600
really enjoy just hearing these accounts

789
00:31:35,070 --> 00:31:32,799
and talking to these people and

790
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:35,080
listening to these stories because you

791
00:31:40,409 --> 00:31:37,600
know I feel like I'm on the cusp of you

792
00:31:42,690 --> 00:31:40,419
know of solving a mystery and we all

793
00:31:44,879 --> 00:31:42,700
love a good mystery and it's like I just

794
00:31:47,249 --> 00:31:44,889
need I need to take in more so that way

795
00:31:48,869 --> 00:31:47,259
I can figure stuff out you know because

796
00:31:50,369 --> 00:31:48,879
I'm actually paying attention to them as

797
00:31:52,409 --> 00:31:50,379
they tell the stories you know I mean

798
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:52,419
even during my Jack Carol interview I

799
00:31:55,379 --> 00:31:53,679
would interrupt him and I would ask him

800
00:31:58,049 --> 00:31:55,389
like questions you know like like during

801
00:32:00,180 --> 00:31:58,059
this the like one time he said he had

802
00:32:02,070 --> 00:32:00,190
like a week-long encounter and then I I

803
00:32:03,539 --> 00:32:02,080
stopped him my ass was like whoa well

804
00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:03,549
when did you shave when did you go to

805
00:32:07,169 --> 00:32:05,230
the bathroom did you sleep and all that

806
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:07,179
stuff like that stuff like that that I

807
00:32:12,419 --> 00:32:10,090
don't think that I don't know that other

808
00:32:14,159 --> 00:32:12,429
people might not have picked up on you

809
00:32:16,739 --> 00:32:14,169
know stuff like that because you know I

810
00:32:18,930 --> 00:32:16,749
want to know I'm not trying to catch

811
00:32:21,599 --> 00:32:18,940
them and say you know oh you're wrong or

812
00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:21,609
whatever I'm trying to figure it out

813
00:32:27,379 --> 00:32:23,940
from their perspective

814
00:32:31,879 --> 00:32:27,389
and using what I know to see if can this

815
00:32:34,460 --> 00:32:31,889
work can this experience work in in the

816
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:34,470
reality that they're presenting you know

817
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:36,690
I mean if there's like if there's like a

818
00:32:40,249 --> 00:32:39,090
whole you know I mean well let's let's

819
00:32:42,289 --> 00:32:40,259
talk about let's shine some light on

820
00:32:43,970 --> 00:32:42,299
let's explore that a bit you know are we

821
00:32:46,039 --> 00:32:43,980
missing details and stuff like that cuz

822
00:32:48,590 --> 00:32:46,049
cuz one of the things I do like yeah I

823
00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:48,600
do like a good story so of course you

824
00:32:54,529 --> 00:32:51,500
know I mean no one no one likes potholes

825
00:32:57,139 --> 00:32:54,539
so I try to make sure that those at

826
00:32:59,090 --> 00:32:57,149
least accounted for you know in the in

827
00:33:02,480 --> 00:32:59,100
whatever it is reality that's being

828
00:33:04,460 --> 00:33:02,490
presented but you know I I mean would it

829
00:33:07,369 --> 00:33:04,470
get us closer to whatever the truth is I

830
00:33:11,659 --> 00:33:07,379
have no idea but you know I we should at

831
00:33:13,639 --> 00:33:11,669
least try hey y'all

832
00:33:15,799 --> 00:33:13,649
Ryan Sprague here as you all know this

833
00:33:18,350 --> 00:33:15,809
somewhere in the skies podcast is always

834
00:33:20,539 --> 00:33:18,360
free to consume but it isn't free to

835
00:33:22,399 --> 00:33:20,549
create that's why I've started this

836
00:33:25,129 --> 00:33:22,409
somewhere in the skies patreon campaign

837
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:25,139
you on a monthly basis you give what you

838
00:33:29,810 --> 00:33:26,970
think the show is worth you'll be

839
00:33:32,299 --> 00:33:29,820
helping the show continue grow and to be

840
00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:32,309
something truly communal and remember

841
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:34,500
there are rewards for each level of

842
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:37,049
contribution and the list is only grown

843
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:39,450
so please help somewhere in the skies

844
00:33:46,369 --> 00:33:42,240
now by becoming a patron to contribute

845
00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:46,379
and to learn more visit WWE and Comm

846
00:33:53,379 --> 00:33:49,529
backslash somewhere skies thank you for

847
00:33:57,470 --> 00:33:55,759
I'm glad to hear you saying you don't

848
00:33:59,869 --> 00:33:57,480
know because there's so many people out

849
00:34:01,310 --> 00:33:59,879
there who claim they do know and those

850
00:34:02,810 --> 00:34:01,320
are the kind of people that I when

851
00:34:05,389 --> 00:34:02,820
people come to me and say this person

852
00:34:08,540 --> 00:34:05,399
says this is the answer and we should

853
00:34:10,250 --> 00:34:08,550
listen to them I'm like I wouldn't go

854
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:10,260
that far if anyone's saying they know

855
00:34:15,050 --> 00:34:12,720
definitively what's going on who's in

856
00:34:17,419 --> 00:34:15,060
control of these UFOs or what

857
00:34:19,700 --> 00:34:17,429
intelligence way behind abductions or

858
00:34:22,010 --> 00:34:19,710
whatnot that's problematic right there

859
00:34:24,319 --> 00:34:22,020
you know I don't think anyone knows to

860
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:24,329
be completely honest what do you that I

861
00:34:29,839 --> 00:34:26,490
completely understand and respect the

862
00:34:31,849 --> 00:34:29,849
skeptic mindset as far as you know

863
00:34:33,919 --> 00:34:31,859
question everything I totally respect

864
00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:33,929
that and I there are a lot of other

865
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:35,760
skeptic groups that I'm a part of that I

866
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:37,440
get along great with there's

867
00:34:42,889 --> 00:34:40,649
this one sceptic group its cryptid

868
00:34:44,450 --> 00:34:42,899
connection I'm one of their members and

869
00:34:47,089 --> 00:34:44,460
they're they're very good they're very

870
00:34:48,409 --> 00:34:47,099
skeptical very science-based but you

871
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:48,419
know every now and then though they'll

872
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:50,490
discuss and embellish the Wu for a bit

873
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:52,770
you know just for analysis purposes and

874
00:34:58,250 --> 00:34:54,960
they're they're very good about that and

875
00:35:00,410 --> 00:34:58,260
I feel comfortable and and confident you

876
00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:00,420
know I can talk to a skeptic just as

877
00:35:05,630 --> 00:35:02,910
much as I can talk to a believer I just

878
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:05,640
I just have to remember to even then but

879
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:07,410
the thing is I what I don't I don't

880
00:35:11,390 --> 00:35:09,930
change my language for them I'm like you

881
00:35:14,089 --> 00:35:11,400
know because whenever I say something

882
00:35:17,540 --> 00:35:14,099
like oh this this experience is in this

883
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:17,550
and the phenomena of this you know I try

884
00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:19,410
to make it clear that what I'm talking

885
00:35:23,780 --> 00:35:20,910
about whether or not it's proven or not

886
00:35:26,420 --> 00:35:23,790
you know just to make it clear so that

887
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:26,430
way they know what I mean what I'm

888
00:35:30,140 --> 00:35:28,290
saying what I'm talking about and I

889
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:30,150
realized that if we're just more open in

890
00:35:33,650 --> 00:35:32,010
our conversations and and we're trying

891
00:35:36,349 --> 00:35:33,660
to be as clear as we can be

892
00:35:39,230 --> 00:35:36,359
when having a conversation that there

893
00:35:42,260 --> 00:35:39,240
shouldn't be any need for animosity I

894
00:35:44,540 --> 00:35:42,270
understand that a lot of skeptics get a

895
00:35:48,140 --> 00:35:44,550
bad rap because there are a lot of who

896
00:35:49,970 --> 00:35:48,150
are more cynical debunkers like they're

897
00:35:52,309 --> 00:35:49,980
not there to listen to a story they're

898
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:52,319
there to listen to plot holes so that

899
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:54,930
they can jump on them and then you know

900
00:35:59,420 --> 00:35:57,359
and then berate them and I guess score a

901
00:36:01,700 --> 00:35:59,430
victory and I can understand for some

902
00:36:03,380 --> 00:36:01,710
you know that's sort of like a keeping

903
00:36:05,660 --> 00:36:03,390
things black and white keeps them in

904
00:36:08,420 --> 00:36:05,670
control because then they remain the

905
00:36:11,540 --> 00:36:08,430
ultimate authority on the issue when

906
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:11,550
it's it's like well you know yeah that

907
00:36:16,190 --> 00:36:13,280
may be the case but on the other hand

908
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:16,200
you know we still need to get even just

909
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,240
for record-keeping purposes just for law

910
00:36:23,450 --> 00:36:20,880
purposes we still need to hear out the

911
00:36:25,370 --> 00:36:23,460
entire experiences and you know put it

912
00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:25,380
under light and examine it you know

913
00:36:30,260 --> 00:36:27,270
thoroughly well in terms of hearing

914
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:30,270
people out you're an artist as well as a

915
00:36:34,970 --> 00:36:31,890
researcher and you did some really

916
00:36:37,130 --> 00:36:34,980
really cool recreations from witness

917
00:36:39,620 --> 00:36:37,140
testimony and one that always stood out

918
00:36:41,690 --> 00:36:39,630
to me is the the featured image for this

919
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:41,700
episode and that's the green alien

920
00:36:46,579 --> 00:36:44,160
perched in the corner of the room could

921
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:46,589
you maybe run us through this case I

922
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:49,530
have to hear about what compelled you to

923
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:50,490
do this drawing

924
00:36:58,700 --> 00:36:54,770
yeah one of the researchers from UFO

925
00:37:03,620 --> 00:36:58,710
cryptid sa investigations based on San

926
00:37:05,390 --> 00:37:03,630
Antonio he was doing a a he I think he

927
00:37:07,370 --> 00:37:05,400
was speaking to one of his family

928
00:37:10,339 --> 00:37:07,380
members who is either his his aunt or

929
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:10,349
his mother and she had had this

930
00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:12,330
encounter where she was walking through

931
00:37:20,780 --> 00:37:14,310
the hallway she she had turned a corner

932
00:37:23,329 --> 00:37:20,790
and she had seen a little gray it looked

933
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:23,339
like a grey but he was green and he was

934
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:25,770
popped up in the corner you know like

935
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:27,450
spider-man that's how she described it

936
00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:28,650
he was up in the corner like spider-man

937
00:37:34,940 --> 00:37:31,710
and he was surrounded by his sparkles

938
00:37:38,089 --> 00:37:34,950
like like like if you've ever sneezed

939
00:37:39,589 --> 00:37:38,099
too fast or or gotten up too fast or

940
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:39,599
getting hit in the head and you see

941
00:37:46,070 --> 00:37:42,690
stars oh yeah yeah those he was

942
00:37:47,950 --> 00:37:46,080
surrounded by sparkles and and she had

943
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:47,960
you know of course she jumped from shock

944
00:37:53,300 --> 00:37:50,400
and when she had jumped from shock it

945
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:53,310
had disappeared so whether it was a

946
00:38:00,109 --> 00:37:56,130
projection or she got time jumped or

947
00:38:02,270 --> 00:38:00,119
whatever we we don't know but that's

948
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,280
just that's just the best that she was

949
00:38:06,380 --> 00:38:04,800
able to describe it and it's sort of

950
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:06,390
this thing that I see over and over

951
00:38:12,740 --> 00:38:08,970
again so I the investigator he had done

952
00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:12,750
a sketch he did I put like on my

953
00:38:17,359 --> 00:38:14,760
Instagram feed I have a couple you know

954
00:38:19,609 --> 00:38:17,369
side-by-side comparisons where you know

955
00:38:21,859 --> 00:38:19,619
if an investigator gives me in a sketch

956
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:21,869
out sometimes I'll try to apply my skill

957
00:38:26,660 --> 00:38:24,930
to it to clean it up a bit so I had

958
00:38:29,570 --> 00:38:26,670
taken his sketch and I had cleaned it up

959
00:38:32,210 --> 00:38:29,580
and I tried to you know applied my my

960
00:38:36,349 --> 00:38:32,220
technical abilities to better flesh it

961
00:38:39,410 --> 00:38:36,359
out to make it more clear and and he and

962
00:38:40,970 --> 00:38:39,420
in some cases when doing recreations you

963
00:38:43,460 --> 00:38:40,980
know you got to fill in the blank

964
00:38:45,829 --> 00:38:43,470
somehow because that's just the that's

965
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:45,839
you know just the way to do it so I had

966
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:48,240
done my best to recreate you know what

967
00:38:53,359 --> 00:38:51,450
she would have seen and as far as you

968
00:38:54,859 --> 00:38:53,369
know as far as I could tell from from

969
00:38:58,210 --> 00:38:54,869
that experience so that's what that was

970
00:39:01,520 --> 00:38:58,220
it was sort of like a a sudden offhand

971
00:39:03,020 --> 00:39:01,530
encounter like like like this thing was

972
00:39:03,890 --> 00:39:03,030
doing its thing it was observing

973
00:39:05,630 --> 00:39:03,900
whatever and it

974
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:05,640
Natalie got caught like he probably had

975
00:39:11,569 --> 00:39:08,490
his shields down or whatever she didn't

976
00:39:14,359 --> 00:39:11,579
have his glimmer on or or whatever it

977
00:39:19,279 --> 00:39:14,369
was he didn't have his his his glimmer

978
00:39:22,190 --> 00:39:19,289
man you know camouflage he didn't have

979
00:39:24,650 --> 00:39:22,200
his cloak up so so whatever he made a

980
00:39:26,690 --> 00:39:24,660
mistake and it's just it's just a weird

981
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:26,700
thing where we get these offhand

982
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:28,650
encounters I think my mother had a

983
00:39:35,210 --> 00:39:31,680
similar experience she told me before

984
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:35,220
she had passed was when when I was like

985
00:39:39,950 --> 00:39:37,440
four years old and my brother was eight

986
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:39,960
we were sleeping you know in her in our

987
00:39:45,140 --> 00:39:41,940
bedroom as a child and my mother had

988
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:45,150
gotten up to walk down the hallway to

989
00:39:51,470 --> 00:39:47,690
get a glass of water and she had seen a

990
00:39:53,059 --> 00:39:51,480
being outside of our room the sort of

991
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:53,069
she couldn't tell if it was a man or a

992
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:55,200
woman but it was like a silhouette of a

993
00:40:00,769 --> 00:39:57,930
sort of a being of light and it went

994
00:40:02,870 --> 00:40:00,779
down to I guess down to the knees and

995
00:40:05,299 --> 00:40:02,880
then the knees below that were

996
00:40:07,309 --> 00:40:05,309
transparent like it was fading away and

997
00:40:09,650 --> 00:40:07,319
she had seen it for a second and then

998
00:40:11,059 --> 00:40:09,660
she jumped and and you know just from

999
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:11,069
the shock of seeing someone in front of

1000
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:13,200
her and then it had blinked out of

1001
00:40:18,260 --> 00:40:15,839
existence it just disappeared so when I

1002
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:18,270
heard her story that sort of struck a

1003
00:40:25,309 --> 00:40:21,920
chord with me that I did that type of

1004
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:25,319
blinking out it's like I've heard of

1005
00:40:29,420 --> 00:40:25,890
that before

1006
00:40:31,069 --> 00:40:29,430
so that's why that took special issue

1007
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:31,079
with me that it's like I have to do

1008
00:40:36,769 --> 00:40:32,970
something with that interesting well um

1009
00:40:39,950 --> 00:40:36,779
in terms of cases Chris I mean do you

1010
00:40:42,289 --> 00:40:39,960
have I like to ask the people who who do

1011
00:40:45,710 --> 00:40:42,299
get involved in this topic and research

1012
00:40:48,380 --> 00:40:45,720
and heavily a favorite UFO case or I

1013
00:40:51,170 --> 00:40:48,390
guess even in abduction account or one

1014
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:51,180
of each to be completely honest any ones

1015
00:40:55,099 --> 00:40:52,650
that really stick out to you as like

1016
00:40:57,470 --> 00:40:55,109
this is the one I want to lay out on the

1017
00:41:00,109 --> 00:40:57,480
table when when those skeptics do come

1018
00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:00,119
to you and say like this is BS or this

1019
00:41:06,289 --> 00:41:03,839
is you know misidentification what what

1020
00:41:09,620 --> 00:41:06,299
are those go-to cases for you I really

1021
00:41:13,220 --> 00:41:09,630
can't nail it down to one case but but I

1022
00:41:17,019 --> 00:41:13,230
do love our when we get accounts of

1023
00:41:22,209 --> 00:41:17,029
creatures or characters that are

1024
00:41:24,399 --> 00:41:22,219
Oh off off pudding or off the norm yeah

1025
00:41:26,979 --> 00:41:24,409
yeah you know irregular you know

1026
00:41:28,839 --> 00:41:26,989
something where it's like a like the the

1027
00:41:32,769 --> 00:41:28,849
I think it's called the Edinburgh horror

1028
00:41:37,449 --> 00:41:32,779
where's this three-legged slob bog

1029
00:41:41,709 --> 00:41:37,459
monster thing or or the the Cisco night

1030
00:41:47,519 --> 00:41:41,719
crawlers or or Lexi was it the one guy

1031
00:41:52,059 --> 00:41:47,529
who was chased up a tree by robots yeah

1032
00:41:55,089 --> 00:41:52,069
yeah and also the the Pascagoula where

1033
00:41:58,299 --> 00:41:55,099
the Calvin Parker and his companion had

1034
00:42:01,509 --> 00:41:58,309
encountered robots and they and it's

1035
00:42:04,539 --> 00:42:01,519
just anything off the wall or just

1036
00:42:06,399 --> 00:42:04,549
beyond the greys at stuff I love I

1037
00:42:08,739 --> 00:42:06,409
absolutely love that stuff it's it's

1038
00:42:10,390 --> 00:42:08,749
just it's remarkable and I'm always

1039
00:42:11,439 --> 00:42:10,400
looking for more of that you know

1040
00:42:13,870 --> 00:42:11,449
whenever I hear people talk about

1041
00:42:16,149 --> 00:42:13,880
reptilians or stuff like that you know

1042
00:42:18,669 --> 00:42:16,159
my ears just perk up you know like dog

1043
00:42:21,069 --> 00:42:18,679
man or stuff like that you know I mean

1044
00:42:23,380 --> 00:42:21,079
cuz I know that Bigfoot and the greys

1045
00:42:26,049 --> 00:42:23,390
are sort of the big men on campus

1046
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:26,059
they're like the popular jocks but I

1047
00:42:30,609 --> 00:42:28,249
love hearing and learning about the rest

1048
00:42:34,089 --> 00:42:30,619
of the people out there that populate

1049
00:42:36,849 --> 00:42:34,099
the the the paranormal field you know be

1050
00:42:39,309 --> 00:42:36,859
they just lore accounts or or whatever

1051
00:42:42,299 --> 00:42:39,319
evidence is brought up whether it's just

1052
00:42:45,609 --> 00:42:42,309
an encounter a brief encounter or or a

1053
00:42:48,009 --> 00:42:45,619
long-winded story you know I just I just

1054
00:42:48,999 --> 00:42:48,019
want to hear so much about it anything

1055
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:49,009
with robots

1056
00:42:53,919 --> 00:42:51,650
I just love robots so much that's cool

1057
00:42:57,849 --> 00:42:53,929
hey man there is no shortage of that in

1058
00:42:59,529 --> 00:42:57,859
the UFO encounter arena I would say

1059
00:43:02,559 --> 00:42:59,539
that's pretty cool I like hearing that

1060
00:43:05,469 --> 00:43:02,569
we don't hear that that often well you

1061
00:43:07,449 --> 00:43:05,479
did mention like dog man and cryptids

1062
00:43:10,449 --> 00:43:07,459
and everything so I want to get your

1063
00:43:12,279 --> 00:43:10,459
opinion on this a lot of people lately

1064
00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:12,289
have sort of been thrown around these

1065
00:43:17,439 --> 00:43:15,169
theories that all this stuff all these

1066
00:43:20,049 --> 00:43:17,449
weird stories were hearing whether it's

1067
00:43:23,709 --> 00:43:20,059
UFOs ghosts cryptids high strangeness

1068
00:43:25,659 --> 00:43:23,719
that they're somehow all connected and I

1069
00:43:28,479 --> 00:43:25,669
don't know what to make of that I've

1070
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:28,489
spent my whole time in this sort of

1071
00:43:32,810 --> 00:43:30,810
weird world exploring UFOs

1072
00:43:34,730 --> 00:43:32,820
now to think that maybe all this other

1073
00:43:38,420 --> 00:43:34,740
stuff could have some sort of connection

1074
00:43:40,700 --> 00:43:38,430
to it like where do you even begin so do

1075
00:43:42,350 --> 00:43:40,710
you think these theories that all of

1076
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:42,360
this stuff is interconnected does it

1077
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:45,810
hold any water for you personally hmm I

1078
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:47,730
do feel like there's something there

1079
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:50,370
I've when I were when I had interviewed

1080
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:53,730
the state director of MUFON Ken Jordan

1081
00:43:58,520 --> 00:43:56,850
he we had brought this up during our

1082
00:44:01,340 --> 00:43:58,530
interview it's not out yet I'm still

1083
00:44:05,690 --> 00:44:01,350
editing and working on it at the time of

1084
00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:05,700
when we record this but as far as the I

1085
00:44:09,610 --> 00:44:08,070
can understand you know people having a

1086
00:44:12,970 --> 00:44:09,620
hard time trying to piece it together

1087
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:12,980
because every single field wants to

1088
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:16,050
compartmentalize everything like you

1089
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:17,250
know you hear about the stories about

1090
00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:19,890
how the Bigfoot's someone sees a Bigfoot

1091
00:44:24,170 --> 00:44:22,200
come out of a UFO well the UFO

1092
00:44:25,940 --> 00:44:24,180
researchers want to hear about the about

1093
00:44:27,110 --> 00:44:25,950
the UFO and the Bigfoot researchers want

1094
00:44:28,970 --> 00:44:27,120
to hear about the Bigfoot but when you

1095
00:44:31,850 --> 00:44:28,980
start cross pollinating then they like

1096
00:44:34,580 --> 00:44:31,860
are like whoa whoa that's not that's not

1097
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:34,590
my field or something like that and I

1098
00:44:39,860 --> 00:44:36,690
guess what's happening is a lot of them

1099
00:44:42,260 --> 00:44:39,870
are starting to pull away from that and

1100
00:44:45,290 --> 00:44:42,270
I I do think it's it's very good and

1101
00:44:46,970 --> 00:44:45,300
it's very positive now you have someone

1102
00:44:49,220 --> 00:44:46,980
that are really you know stuck in the

1103
00:44:50,990 --> 00:44:49,230
mud as far as you know like no we got to

1104
00:44:52,730 --> 00:44:51,000
keep everything separate and I'm and I'm

1105
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:52,740
okay with categorizing stuff but when

1106
00:44:56,990 --> 00:44:54,450
there's cross-pollination you know that

1107
00:44:59,660 --> 00:44:57,000
needs to be brought up because there we

1108
00:45:02,210 --> 00:44:59,670
do have our one-off single phenomenon

1109
00:45:03,710 --> 00:45:02,220
accounts but as far as they're really

1110
00:45:06,350 --> 00:45:03,720
weird stuff the sort of high strangeness

1111
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:06,360
stuff it is something that I want to

1112
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:09,210
hear more of I feel like we need to do

1113
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:11,970
more gathering because so many times and

1114
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:14,130
this axe me this is another reason why I

1115
00:45:19,970 --> 00:45:17,040
started my own show because I'm tired of

1116
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:19,980
hearing stuff you know what I feel our

1117
00:45:25,450 --> 00:45:21,810
precious details being you know yada

1118
00:45:28,370 --> 00:45:25,460
yada I hate that like say for example

1119
00:45:29,900 --> 00:45:28,380
this is especially Perl if in an

1120
00:45:32,900 --> 00:45:29,910
abduction experience like people will

1121
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:32,910
say oh I was abducted by aliens the

1122
00:45:37,310 --> 00:45:34,770
greys they came for me they took me they

1123
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:37,320
talked to me blah blah blah but yadda

1124
00:45:41,650 --> 00:45:39,450
yadda a paranormal activity at my house

1125
00:45:42,820 --> 00:45:41,660
and it's like but you know and I'm like

1126
00:45:46,510 --> 00:45:42,830
wait

1127
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:46,520
activity

1128
00:45:51,220 --> 00:45:49,370
can you expand on that you know I want

1129
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:51,230
to hear like what specifically happened

1130
00:45:56,260 --> 00:45:53,530
you know I want to hear that dug into

1131
00:45:57,310 --> 00:45:56,270
but so far most of the hosts they

1132
00:45:59,830 --> 00:45:57,320
yadda-yadda

1133
00:46:04,000 --> 00:45:59,840
that they allow the guest to just dance

1134
00:46:06,460 --> 00:46:04,010
over it and that that it works me you

1135
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:06,470
know I get them in I know I remember one

1136
00:46:10,780 --> 00:46:08,930
of the biggest cases in my book was

1137
00:46:13,150 --> 00:46:10,790
about a woman in Michigan who had a

1138
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:13,160
triangular UFO sighting and then after

1139
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:16,490
that you know it it became a story of

1140
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:18,530
high strangeness and poltergeist

1141
00:46:23,650 --> 00:46:21,010
activity and that was something I

1142
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:23,660
struggled when I was you know finishing

1143
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:25,130
and editing the chapter I'm like do I

1144
00:46:28,810 --> 00:46:27,680
include this or not and at the end of

1145
00:46:31,420 --> 00:46:28,820
the day like if I'm gonna be a

1146
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:31,430
responsible researcher and you know

1147
00:46:36,370 --> 00:46:33,890
author I have to it's part of the story

1148
00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:36,380
it's part of our experience so I liked

1149
00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:38,630
it I loved hearing that you're willing

1150
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:40,910
to go there and not Yatta Yatta that

1151
00:46:48,310 --> 00:46:42,890
like a lot of the big shows you tend to

1152
00:46:50,020 --> 00:46:48,320
do I can understand for some of the more

1153
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:50,030
commercial shows for time restraints I

1154
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:52,850
kind of get that but you know if you're

1155
00:46:57,820 --> 00:46:56,000
not on a time restriction you know then

1156
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,830
and you can take a few moments where

1157
00:47:03,720 --> 00:46:59,920
that's another reason why I think

1158
00:47:06,340 --> 00:47:03,730
podcasting is sort of getting more

1159
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:06,350
because we can we can dig a bit deeper

1160
00:47:11,830 --> 00:47:09,050
we we don't a lot of us are not

1161
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:11,840
restricted to time constraints I think

1162
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:13,280
that's one of the best things that you

1163
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:15,680
know the YouTube is fear or whatever has

1164
00:47:22,590 --> 00:47:19,130
done for content creators is that it

1165
00:47:25,660 --> 00:47:22,600
allows us to make take time creating and

1166
00:47:27,610 --> 00:47:25,670
hashing out quality content it's like

1167
00:47:29,620 --> 00:47:27,620
there's no longer a behind-the-scenes

1168
00:47:31,420 --> 00:47:29,630
footage type of stuff like that there's

1169
00:47:34,720 --> 00:47:31,430
no stuff on the cutting room floor

1170
00:47:37,270 --> 00:47:34,730
anymore or as much and we get to really

1171
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:37,280
you know dig deeper into these I mean

1172
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:39,530
there are some podcasts they go like for

1173
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:42,410
hours just talking about one thing and

1174
00:47:47,140 --> 00:47:44,930
and although I mean I could never do

1175
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:47,150
that but I understand that for a lot of

1176
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:49,730
us you know we some of us we need that

1177
00:47:54,310 --> 00:47:52,370
that short burst of you know let's talk

1178
00:47:54,850 --> 00:47:54,320
about this for 45 minutes and then we'll

1179
00:47:58,600 --> 00:47:54,860
have part

1180
00:48:00,930 --> 00:47:58,610
- but those 45 minutes are deep dives

1181
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:00,940
yeah and that's where I really feel that

1182
00:48:08,110 --> 00:48:04,490
podcasting you know really shines as a

1183
00:48:10,650 --> 00:48:08,120
as a as new media that we're able to

1184
00:48:13,450 --> 00:48:10,660
really take those deep dives and really

1185
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:13,460
expand on those details and stuff that

1186
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:15,440
otherwise we would not have gotten on

1187
00:48:20,260 --> 00:48:18,410
the the you know the 10 o'clock to

1188
00:48:22,270 --> 00:48:20,270
midnight shows that because they got a

1189
00:48:24,130 --> 00:48:22,280
rush through stuff you know ya know

1190
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:24,140
that's a really good point yeah we're

1191
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:26,720
able to expand more and dig deeper and

1192
00:48:31,420 --> 00:48:29,570
it really you know it depends on the the

1193
00:48:33,100 --> 00:48:31,430
host if they're willing to go there so

1194
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:33,110
that's what I really enjoy about your

1195
00:48:38,350 --> 00:48:35,210
show is you're willing to go there and I

1196
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:38,360
guess for my my next question to do with

1197
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:42,110
all this curse the capital D word we got

1198
00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:45,040
who we got to talk about this disclosure

1199
00:48:49,660 --> 00:48:47,510
what are your personal thoughts on

1200
00:48:53,380 --> 00:48:49,670
disclosure is this ever going to happen

1201
00:48:54,220 --> 00:48:53,390
what form is it gonna take or is it even

1202
00:48:56,980 --> 00:48:54,230
a thing

1203
00:49:00,580 --> 00:48:56,990
UFO disclosure what are your thoughts on

1204
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:00,590
this I just had a really long

1205
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:03,650
conversation with the guy with a man

1206
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:06,050
from Lou Fong about this specific

1207
00:49:12,010 --> 00:49:07,760
subject and a Filipino restaurant for

1208
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:12,020
like an hour and that was very that was

1209
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:17,090
very very very deep diving so I guess

1210
00:49:23,410 --> 00:49:21,170
just I guess just a just a personal I

1211
00:49:27,490 --> 00:49:23,420
don't feel I'll ever be personally

1212
00:49:30,940 --> 00:49:27,500
satisfied what I want of course

1213
00:49:34,090 --> 00:49:30,950
I think what most of us want is we want

1214
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:34,100
you know the president to come down you

1215
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:35,810
know the the man of orange and right

1216
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:38,000
next to him a little man of green to

1217
00:49:42,130 --> 00:49:40,400
come out and say hey buddies you know

1218
00:49:44,620 --> 00:49:42,140
here's what's up here's the thing here's

1219
00:49:48,490 --> 00:49:44,630
what's going on and that's not gonna

1220
00:49:49,870 --> 00:49:48,500
happen I and because of that I'm you

1221
00:49:54,250 --> 00:49:49,880
know on one hand so yeah I'm kind of

1222
00:49:57,700 --> 00:49:54,260
disappointed because you know we're

1223
00:50:01,660 --> 00:49:57,710
always on the cusp of for some reason it

1224
00:50:05,530 --> 00:50:01,670
seems like a big deal for us the the US

1225
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:05,540
government to to come forward even

1226
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:08,640
though world governments they have the

1227
00:50:13,549 --> 00:50:10,890
our own forms of disclosure and stuff

1228
00:50:15,769 --> 00:50:13,559
like that yeah and and they they sort of

1229
00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:15,779
you know they sort of say and do stuff

1230
00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:18,089
that you know our government are going

1231
00:50:22,910 --> 00:50:20,760
to be tightly lipped about and you know

1232
00:50:25,099 --> 00:50:22,920
it's like our you know who do you trust

1233
00:50:26,990 --> 00:50:25,109
I mean a lot of people are very

1234
00:50:29,930 --> 00:50:27,000
distrustful of the government and for

1235
00:50:32,569 --> 00:50:29,940
good reason I mean you know it's it's

1236
00:50:34,730 --> 00:50:32,579
just it's a very difficult subject I

1237
00:50:38,089 --> 00:50:34,740
think a lot of people are jaded you know

1238
00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:38,099
I I really really want you know the UFO

1239
00:50:43,609 --> 00:50:40,049
to show up I want the big show the big

1240
00:50:44,930 --> 00:50:43,619
performance but I feel that deep in my

1241
00:50:48,140 --> 00:50:44,940
heart I'm not gonna see that in my

1242
00:50:50,750 --> 00:50:48,150
lifetime everyone is saying like oh this

1243
00:50:52,849 --> 00:50:50,760
is the year this is the year and it's

1244
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:52,859
it's I feel like I've been hearing that

1245
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:55,890
for six 60 years even though I've only

1246
00:51:02,120 --> 00:50:57,690
been hearing it technically for twenty

1247
00:51:04,579 --> 00:51:02,130
years so it's it feels like 60 I just I

1248
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:04,589
feel I feel so so disappointed and

1249
00:51:08,509 --> 00:51:06,240
disheartened when I when I hear it

1250
00:51:11,359 --> 00:51:08,519
brought up and when I hear people like

1251
00:51:12,789 --> 00:51:11,369
talk about it with so much Glee and hope

1252
00:51:14,690 --> 00:51:12,799
and and that glimmer in their eye

1253
00:51:17,539 --> 00:51:14,700
because I feel like they're gonna be

1254
00:51:19,370 --> 00:51:17,549
disappointed but some people you know

1255
00:51:21,859 --> 00:51:19,380
they'll often spin it towards you know

1256
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:21,869
like well you know this is a soft

1257
00:51:27,710 --> 00:51:25,650
disclosure and and and I'm like okay I I

1258
00:51:30,650 --> 00:51:27,720
see your point I see your perspective

1259
00:51:34,460 --> 00:51:30,660
and I respect it but unfortunately for

1260
00:51:36,140 --> 00:51:34,470
me that's not enough and and weren't and

1261
00:51:37,849 --> 00:51:36,150
those are just issues where I think

1262
00:51:41,809 --> 00:51:37,859
we're going to have to agree to disagree

1263
00:51:43,819 --> 00:51:41,819
on on some of those points because at

1264
00:51:46,910 --> 00:51:43,829
the point we're at an impasse where you

1265
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:46,920
know I mean we can make a case and argue

1266
00:51:52,490 --> 00:51:49,410
as best we can but we're not the ones

1267
00:51:53,740 --> 00:51:52,500
holding the keys on that on the

1268
00:51:56,839 --> 00:51:53,750
definitive answer

1269
00:51:57,980 --> 00:51:56,849
unfortunately so it's it's just one of

1270
00:51:59,930 --> 00:51:57,990
those things that I think we're just

1271
00:52:02,749 --> 00:51:59,940
gonna have to you know spin the wheels a

1272
00:52:04,670 --> 00:52:02,759
bit more and you know I mean I hate to

1273
00:52:07,099 --> 00:52:04,680
be a bummer but I'm just not I'm just

1274
00:52:09,380 --> 00:52:07,109
not optimistic about it yeah man that's

1275
00:52:12,259 --> 00:52:09,390
called being a realist and I agree with

1276
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:12,269
you wholeheartedly I think I think

1277
00:52:16,819 --> 00:52:14,880
disclosure if that is even a thing is

1278
00:52:19,009 --> 00:52:16,829
gonna either come from like you said

1279
00:52:21,339 --> 00:52:19,019
those who hold the keys and I think the

1280
00:52:23,140 --> 00:52:21,349
phenomenon holds the keys

1281
00:52:26,170 --> 00:52:23,150
I think it's gonna come from small

1282
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:26,180
disclosures for each person who has some

1283
00:52:31,390 --> 00:52:28,130
sort of experience you know I mean

1284
00:52:33,279 --> 00:52:31,400
whether the ultimate answer is you know

1285
00:52:35,559 --> 00:52:33,289
yes aliens are coming they're visiting

1286
00:52:38,769 --> 00:52:35,569
us from elsewhere that's the fascinating

1287
00:52:41,859 --> 00:52:38,779
thing or this is all in our heads we're

1288
00:52:43,180 --> 00:52:41,869
crazy it's a form of psychosis if it's

1289
00:52:45,069 --> 00:52:43,190
one of it's got to be either one of

1290
00:52:46,749 --> 00:52:45,079
those you know some people who could say

1291
00:52:48,729 --> 00:52:46,759
well it could be both yeah well if it is

1292
00:52:50,140 --> 00:52:48,739
you know the ultimate thing is you know

1293
00:52:52,599 --> 00:52:50,150
it's got to be something along that line

1294
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:52,609
definitively if it has to be one or the

1295
00:52:56,529 --> 00:52:54,650
other you know that would still be a

1296
00:52:59,200 --> 00:52:56,539
fascinating thing that would still be a

1297
00:53:01,029 --> 00:52:59,210
remarkable thing we would still be

1298
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:01,039
living in a remarkable world and we

1299
00:53:05,019 --> 00:53:02,930
would still be full of remarkable

1300
00:53:07,509 --> 00:53:05,029
experiences and I would be satisfied

1301
00:53:09,910 --> 00:53:07,519
with either but you know but as far as

1302
00:53:12,069 --> 00:53:09,920
you know do if I were to need something

1303
00:53:14,650 --> 00:53:12,079
black and white that's sort of my

1304
00:53:16,749 --> 00:53:14,660
parameter for that but you know China

1305
00:53:18,999 --> 00:53:16,759
settling for the shades of grey you know

1306
00:53:21,969 --> 00:53:19,009
I can understand it I can understand and

1307
00:53:24,190 --> 00:53:21,979
I respect it but it's you know it's it

1308
00:53:28,059 --> 00:53:24,200
can be a bit it can be a bit frustrating

1309
00:53:30,489 --> 00:53:28,069
at times yeah it always is well I mean

1310
00:53:33,849 --> 00:53:30,499
so we had a rep wrap things up here

1311
00:53:37,150 --> 00:53:33,859
Chris the there seems to be in terms of

1312
00:53:38,709 --> 00:53:37,160
the UFO field this influx of people kind

1313
00:53:42,579 --> 00:53:38,719
of getting involved whether it's on

1314
00:53:44,109 --> 00:53:42,589
Twitter or you know YouTube or TV shows

1315
00:53:47,289 --> 00:53:44,119
movies books what-have-you

1316
00:53:49,450 --> 00:53:47,299
what would you say personally to the

1317
00:53:51,370 --> 00:53:49,460
younger people coming into the UFO

1318
00:53:53,170 --> 00:53:51,380
research field I mean I'm one of the

1319
00:53:55,599 --> 00:53:53,180
quote-unquote younger people in the

1320
00:53:58,420 --> 00:53:55,609
field and I need to young my man either

1321
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:58,430
so what should we tell these people just

1322
00:54:03,370 --> 00:54:01,119
getting into this who should they read

1323
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:03,380
listen to stuff

1324
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:04,729
what what advice would you give people

1325
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:07,729
just starting to look at the UFO topic I

1326
00:54:13,839 --> 00:54:09,890
would say with uh with with new media

1327
00:54:16,380 --> 00:54:13,849
with podcasting and stuff just stick

1328
00:54:18,819 --> 00:54:16,390
with what you like support what you like

1329
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:18,829
it doesn't have to be my show or even

1330
00:54:23,829 --> 00:54:21,410
your show but you know there are a lot

1331
00:54:25,900 --> 00:54:23,839
of people giving different perspectives

1332
00:54:28,479 --> 00:54:25,910
on different accounts in we've hit the

1333
00:54:30,819 --> 00:54:28,489
point now where you can find the show

1334
00:54:32,910 --> 00:54:30,829
the paranormal short whatever they click

1335
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:32,920
specifically for you

1336
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:35,370
I can recommend a bunch of you know

1337
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:38,110
podcasts that people listen to that are

1338
00:54:41,010 --> 00:54:39,250
from different people that have

1339
00:54:43,140 --> 00:54:41,020
different perspectives which is why I

1340
00:54:46,740 --> 00:54:43,150
listen to them and it's whether it's a

1341
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:46,750
cultural perspective or a generational

1342
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:48,910
perspective I do enjoy it all you know

1343
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:52,000
be at the para cast for more seasoned

1344
00:54:55,950 --> 00:54:54,250
generation because I I listen to that

1345
00:54:58,380 --> 00:54:55,960
show and I'm introduced to new people

1346
00:55:00,300 --> 00:54:58,390
all the time off that show yeah same I

1347
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:00,310
mean there's some times where I spiked

1348
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:01,930
some of their guests and they've

1349
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:03,610
actually sniped some of my guests and

1350
00:55:10,110 --> 00:55:08,050
I've admitted to it and and and whether

1351
00:55:12,180 --> 00:55:10,120
it be you know from a younger generation

1352
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:12,190
be it either your show or Rob

1353
00:55:17,610 --> 00:55:15,490
Kristofferson show or or more seasoned

1354
00:55:20,340 --> 00:55:17,620
like the I guess the mid-range people

1355
00:55:22,590 --> 00:55:20,350
like be it myself or or Chris Cogswell

1356
00:55:24,510 --> 00:55:22,600
you know all these these remarkable

1357
00:55:26,940 --> 00:55:24,520
accounts of these remarkable people out

1358
00:55:28,470 --> 00:55:26,950
there doing these remarkable accounts

1359
00:55:29,790 --> 00:55:28,480
you know be it where they from they were

1360
00:55:33,090 --> 00:55:29,800
they whether they are from their

1361
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:33,100
perspective of the believer or from the

1362
00:55:38,490 --> 00:55:35,890
perspective of a seasoned skeptic you

1363
00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:38,500
know be there Chris Cogswell or a Cisco

1364
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:41,920
Murdoch you know I do enjoy hearing from

1365
00:55:47,490 --> 00:55:44,650
all these different perspectives on

1366
00:55:49,410 --> 00:55:47,500
these accounts you know and I you know I

1367
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:49,420
do enjoy and the thing is theory I'm

1368
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:52,000
constantly constantly running into new

1369
00:55:56,250 --> 00:55:54,370
stuff and lots of fascinating people I

1370
00:55:58,170 --> 00:55:56,260
mean you're gonna hit a point where you

1371
00:56:00,450 --> 00:55:58,180
can't keep up with all of it but you

1372
00:56:02,780 --> 00:56:00,460
know I mean but you're gonna gravitate

1373
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:02,790
towards what resonates with you the most

1374
00:56:08,250 --> 00:56:06,160
yeah I can just say just just keep

1375
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:08,260
looking and eventually you'll figure out

1376
00:56:11,130 --> 00:56:09,730
that there's a but there's something

1377
00:56:14,310 --> 00:56:11,140
that's gonna be geared specifically

1378
00:56:15,900 --> 00:56:14,320
towards you such a good point man and it

1379
00:56:18,090 --> 00:56:15,910
might take some time you know I remember

1380
00:56:20,130 --> 00:56:18,100
there are shows I've listened to you

1381
00:56:21,630 --> 00:56:20,140
where took me like months and months of

1382
00:56:24,060 --> 00:56:21,640
listening to be like yeah you know what

1383
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:24,070
I'm gonna go a different way with my you

1384
00:56:29,220 --> 00:56:26,170
know where I want ahead in terms of who

1385
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:29,230
I listen to what authorities I I sort of

1386
00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:32,050
on side with but again that's the thing

1387
00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:33,910
about these phenomenon they change the

1388
00:56:37,710 --> 00:56:35,710
minute we think we know something so

1389
00:56:40,170 --> 00:56:37,720
it's the same when it comes to wrong

1390
00:56:42,690 --> 00:56:40,180
being in the UFO field it's it's

1391
00:56:44,220 --> 00:56:42,700
malleable in its content can I bring

1392
00:56:44,810 --> 00:56:44,230
something up for for just a minute

1393
00:56:46,420 --> 00:56:44,820
please

1394
00:56:48,900 --> 00:56:46,430
something about

1395
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:48,910
but I what I remember one time where

1396
00:56:55,690 --> 00:56:52,970
someone had criticized you for for how

1397
00:56:58,749 --> 00:56:55,700
you market yourself and I just want to

1398
00:57:02,019 --> 00:56:58,759
say one of the things that I hear in the

1399
00:57:04,299 --> 00:57:02,029
field is sort of like a like a purity

1400
00:57:08,499 --> 00:57:04,309
test is you know it's like oh there's no

1401
00:57:10,180 --> 00:57:08,509
money in paranormal or if this person

1402
00:57:13,029 --> 00:57:10,190
makes money they're a shill

1403
00:57:15,099 --> 00:57:13,039
and I'm like that right there for me as

1404
00:57:18,849 --> 00:57:15,109
total is total hogwash its total

1405
00:57:21,370 --> 00:57:18,859
[\h__\h] because I come from from an

1406
00:57:23,620 --> 00:57:21,380
artist background and I understand you

1407
00:57:26,380 --> 00:57:23,630
know to a degree marketing I'm not good

1408
00:57:29,229 --> 00:57:26,390
at it I suck at marketing I mean I'm

1409
00:57:31,390 --> 00:57:29,239
terrible at it but someone's criticism

1410
00:57:33,130 --> 00:57:31,400
they laid out a whole bunch of stuff you

1411
00:57:36,130 --> 00:57:33,140
know criticizing you specifically for

1412
00:57:37,839 --> 00:57:36,140
your book for your podcast your podcast

1413
00:57:39,309 --> 00:57:37,849
you know reinforces your book and how

1414
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:39,319
you're like on all these shows and doing

1415
00:57:43,329 --> 00:57:41,119
all this stuff and I'm like looking at

1416
00:57:46,809 --> 00:57:43,339
us like all those criticisms are just

1417
00:57:48,279 --> 00:57:46,819
good marketing and and it's like getting

1418
00:57:50,499 --> 00:57:48,289
your name out there and making money

1419
00:57:52,690 --> 00:57:50,509
even though you may not make like we may

1420
00:57:54,339 --> 00:57:52,700
not make tons of money but just because

1421
00:57:56,709 --> 00:57:54,349
you're not making tons of money doesn't

1422
00:57:58,059 --> 00:57:56,719
mean there's not money to be made and if

1423
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:58,069
you are making money that just means

1424
00:58:01,749 --> 00:57:59,599
you're you're good at marketing and what

1425
00:58:05,319 --> 00:58:01,759
you do and no one should be no one

1426
00:58:07,390 --> 00:58:05,329
should be faulted for that because that

1427
00:58:09,430 --> 00:58:07,400
is just that it's just total total crap

1428
00:58:12,209 --> 00:58:09,440
just because someone is good at

1429
00:58:15,039 --> 00:58:12,219
something they shouldn't ever be made to

1430
00:58:16,900 --> 00:58:15,049
demean for it or make to feel guilty

1431
00:58:18,700 --> 00:58:16,910
about it because other people are

1432
00:58:20,499 --> 00:58:18,710
struggling you know it's like I'm sorry

1433
00:58:23,319 --> 00:58:20,509
that's just not that's just not how

1434
00:58:25,559 --> 00:58:23,329
reality reality works I know that a lot

1435
00:58:28,509 --> 00:58:25,569
of people like to slam ancient aliens

1436
00:58:30,549 --> 00:58:28,519
but they're very successful in their

1437
00:58:33,339 --> 00:58:30,559
show they're introducing a lot of people

1438
00:58:35,769 --> 00:58:33,349
to the phenomenon and a lot of those

1439
00:58:37,569 --> 00:58:35,779
people though though they'll hear about

1440
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:37,579
that and then they'll come to me and

1441
00:58:41,950 --> 00:58:39,440
they'll want to talk about it further

1442
00:58:44,099 --> 00:58:41,960
and it's like yeah let's let's talk

1443
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:44,109
about let's let's introduce us you know

1444
00:58:50,049 --> 00:58:48,410
it's just I mean because anybody that

1445
00:58:52,180 --> 00:58:50,059
especially in the article because I've

1446
00:58:54,039 --> 00:58:52,190
been working at conventions I've had my

1447
00:58:55,150 --> 00:58:54,049
table I conventions I've had I've been

1448
00:58:57,819 --> 00:58:55,160
to the point where I've been I've been

1449
00:58:59,790 --> 00:58:57,829
drawing Deadpool you know stuff like

1450
00:59:04,020 --> 00:58:59,800
that doing something stupid

1451
00:59:06,300 --> 00:59:04,030
for a couple bucks you know to make

1452
00:59:08,850 --> 00:59:06,310
people happy and yeah I do enjoy it and

1453
00:59:10,830 --> 00:59:08,860
I love it but to do what I want to do I

1454
00:59:13,410 --> 00:59:10,840
sort of I have to you know do the work

1455
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:13,420
and I do have to you know make things

1456
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:15,520
out there for for just the general

1457
00:59:20,670 --> 00:59:17,920
audience and you got a you got to keep

1458
00:59:22,170 --> 00:59:20,680
the general audience in mind you know

1459
00:59:23,490 --> 00:59:22,180
and there are some stuff some projects

1460
00:59:25,530 --> 00:59:23,500
that I have that are made specifically

1461
00:59:29,460 --> 00:59:25,540
for the general audience when I do my

1462
00:59:32,910 --> 00:59:29,470
show I try hard to make to treat every

1463
00:59:35,550 --> 00:59:32,920
episode like it's the like it's the like

1464
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:35,560
it's the listeners first like I try to

1465
00:59:39,450 --> 00:59:36,610
treat everything as if it's an

1466
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:39,460
introduction to stuff I mean my show

1467
00:59:44,460 --> 00:59:41,650
isn't for advanced people but that

1468
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:44,470
doesn't mean advanced called advanced

1469
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:46,480
phenomena people can't enjoy it you know

1470
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:48,130
it's more like for introductory and

1471
00:59:53,940 --> 00:59:52,210
intermediate but it's sort of a you know

1472
00:59:56,190 --> 00:59:53,950
and I try to give people a taste of what

1473
00:59:58,050 --> 00:59:56,200
you know but more advanced phenomena I

1474
00:59:59,220 --> 00:59:58,060
can can talk about and stuff like that

1475
01:00:01,350 --> 00:59:59,230
because I'm always trying to bring it up

1476
01:00:03,330 --> 01:00:01,360
and rehash and stuff like that but the

1477
01:00:05,340 --> 01:00:03,340
whole idea that people that because

1478
01:00:06,540 --> 01:00:05,350
someone's making money at something you

1479
01:00:09,570 --> 01:00:06,550
know that just means are they're good at

1480
01:00:11,460 --> 01:00:09,580
it and I I just get so tired of that hey

1481
01:00:13,050 --> 01:00:11,470
from one artist or another I appreciate

1482
01:00:15,450 --> 01:00:13,060
your saying that because I have been

1483
01:00:17,430 --> 01:00:15,460
called out on how much I post my own

1484
01:00:19,260 --> 01:00:17,440
work and this and that but you know what

1485
01:00:20,940 --> 01:00:19,270
I mean that's what that's what

1486
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:20,950
networking is that's why it's called

1487
01:00:26,460 --> 01:00:23,650
social networking you know I'm trying to

1488
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:26,470
find other people and and do things I

1489
01:00:31,830 --> 01:00:29,410
mean that that's why a podcast the

1490
01:00:34,170 --> 01:00:31,840
podcast world I think is so good because

1491
01:00:35,910 --> 01:00:34,180
we build each other up most of us at

1492
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:35,920
least build each other up rather than

1493
01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:38,530
tearing each other down and there's very

1494
01:00:43,170 --> 01:00:40,480
few communities like that out there that

1495
01:00:46,140 --> 01:00:43,180
are that really do that and it's a

1496
01:00:49,350 --> 01:00:46,150
community that I just am so honored to

1497
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:49,360
be a part of because it is mostly people

1498
01:00:53,970 --> 01:00:51,730
supporting one another I don't care how

1499
01:00:55,620 --> 01:00:53,980
many UFO podcasts are out there they're

1500
01:00:57,330 --> 01:00:55,630
more of the merrier in my opinion it

1501
01:01:00,360 --> 01:00:57,340
just gets more acknowledgement of the

1502
01:01:03,180 --> 01:01:00,370
phenomenon and it helps all of us yeah

1503
01:01:06,750 --> 01:01:03,190
and I can understand some people trying

1504
01:01:08,790 --> 01:01:06,760
to do it for free because of I guess

1505
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:08,800
they're trying to preserve merit or

1506
01:01:12,550 --> 01:01:11,770
integrity I can totally understand that

1507
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:12,560
I wouldn't fault

1508
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:15,650
for it but at the same time if you're

1509
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:17,450
good at something there's nothing wrong

1510
01:01:23,700 --> 01:01:20,210
with charging for it you know I mean if

1511
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:23,710
so long as no one is being exploited if

1512
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:26,570
then that's where I draw the line is

1513
01:01:31,170 --> 01:01:28,610
where someone is exploiting other people

1514
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:31,180
because we see cases in the news where

1515
01:01:38,110 --> 01:01:33,770
someone with psychic abilities is like

1516
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:38,120
exploiting someone naive into believing

1517
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:39,890
that you know they're gonna be in grave

1518
01:01:43,630 --> 01:01:42,170
danger unless they're bullied into you

1519
01:01:46,090 --> 01:01:43,640
know giving them lots of money and stuff

1520
01:01:47,830 --> 01:01:46,100
like that so that that is where I draw

1521
01:01:50,740 --> 01:01:47,840
the line but you know what I can

1522
01:01:54,130 --> 01:01:50,750
understand why people try to put the

1523
01:01:57,100 --> 01:01:54,140
numerical value on stuff as a means of

1524
01:02:00,430 --> 01:01:57,110
trying to you know preserve that sort of

1525
01:02:01,750 --> 01:02:00,440
you know humbleness - - yeah because

1526
01:02:04,060 --> 01:02:01,760
they don't want to be mixed in you know

1527
01:02:06,460 --> 01:02:04,070
I get it I get it but at the same time

1528
01:02:08,050 --> 01:02:06,470
because someone is and they are charging

1529
01:02:10,150 --> 01:02:08,060
and they are making money you can't be

1530
01:02:11,710 --> 01:02:10,160
mad at them either I love that man well

1531
01:02:13,990 --> 01:02:11,720
it's good to hear you say that well in

1532
01:02:16,750 --> 01:02:14,000
terms of you know charging for one's

1533
01:02:18,700 --> 01:02:16,760
work some of your artwork I've got a I

1534
01:02:21,250 --> 01:02:18,710
got to get my hands on some of this man

1535
01:02:23,350 --> 01:02:21,260
so you got to tell me um in the art

1536
01:02:26,620 --> 01:02:23,360
world what are you up to now

1537
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:26,630
what comes next for you in terms of your

1538
01:02:33,250 --> 01:02:30,910
your art life and also your podcast life

1539
01:02:34,930 --> 01:02:33,260
well the podcast I've got a couple of

1540
01:02:37,540 --> 01:02:34,940
episodes that I'm editing that are gonna

1541
01:02:39,310 --> 01:02:37,550
be out pretty soon mainly with talking

1542
01:02:41,290 --> 01:02:39,320
with MUFON individuals one about

1543
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:41,300
disclosure and one about a bit of the

1544
01:02:47,710 --> 01:02:43,970
history of MUFON and then I'm gonna be

1545
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:47,720
discussing I'm always open for talking

1546
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:49,130
to more people I'm trying to reach out

1547
01:02:53,110 --> 01:02:51,050
to other shows and and talk to them

1548
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:53,120
because I always love talking to other

1549
01:02:57,310 --> 01:02:55,370
podcasters about podcasting and stuff

1550
01:02:59,100 --> 01:02:57,320
like that so you might hear me on a

1551
01:03:03,040 --> 01:02:59,110
couple of other people's shows coming up

1552
01:03:04,900 --> 01:03:03,050
and also as far as art wise I definitely

1553
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:04,910
recommend people follow my Instagram

1554
01:03:11,740 --> 01:03:09,170
which is conspire a theory and that is

1555
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:11,750
like you put the underscores between the

1556
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:13,850
words so its conspire underscore a

1557
01:03:19,090 --> 01:03:17,090
underscore theory that's the best place

1558
01:03:22,900 --> 01:03:19,100
that I would recommend people follow me

1559
01:03:24,580 --> 01:03:22,910
because Instagram is just it's it's sort

1560
01:03:26,250 --> 01:03:24,590
of a bit like Facebook a bit like

1561
01:03:29,940 --> 01:03:26,260
Twitter but you're not in

1562
01:03:31,710 --> 01:03:29,950
everyone else's business all the time

1563
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:31,720
and it's it's the best place for me to

1564
01:03:36,690 --> 01:03:34,330
showcase my artwork and and stuff like

1565
01:03:39,060 --> 01:03:36,700
that uh eventually everything I post on

1566
01:03:41,370 --> 01:03:39,070
instagram does get posted to twitter and

1567
01:03:44,490 --> 01:03:41,380
i'm trying to clean up my twitter a bit

1568
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:44,500
more you know not not be so so you know

1569
01:03:48,660 --> 01:03:46,810
into the political stuff because it's so

1570
01:03:51,450 --> 01:03:48,670
easy for us to get into fights and stuff

1571
01:03:53,610 --> 01:03:51,460
like that just i'm the general political

1572
01:03:55,020 --> 01:03:53,620
stuff like that and and i'm trying to

1573
01:03:57,840 --> 01:03:55,030
clean that up and post more of my

1574
01:03:59,580 --> 01:03:57,850
artwork on there so i'm always producing

1575
01:04:01,680 --> 01:03:59,590
artwork i've always got stuff you know

1576
01:04:05,580 --> 01:04:01,690
in production and stuff is always being

1577
01:04:09,330 --> 01:04:05,590
worked on but if people need you know my

1578
01:04:10,620 --> 01:04:09,340
skill or my help with anything i am open

1579
01:04:13,740 --> 01:04:10,630
for hire

1580
01:04:15,810 --> 01:04:13,750
i'm always you know i'm always open to a

1581
01:04:17,850 --> 01:04:15,820
new project or anything else if anybody

1582
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:17,860
needs any assistance if any authors like

1583
01:04:23,700 --> 01:04:21,250
yourself need a recreation for some

1584
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:23,710
other published work or anything that's

1585
01:04:27,690 --> 01:04:25,810
going into a book or anything you know i

1586
01:04:29,910 --> 01:04:27,700
mean i can give you a special rate and

1587
01:04:32,910 --> 01:04:29,920
stuff like that it's it's no big deal

1588
01:04:35,010 --> 01:04:32,920
I've had other people you know come to

1589
01:04:37,620 --> 01:04:35,020
me for designs that they that they want

1590
01:04:39,210 --> 01:04:37,630
for either it be a t-shirt or or they

1591
01:04:40,140 --> 01:04:39,220
need something specifically for a book

1592
01:04:43,350 --> 01:04:40,150
or something like that I

1593
01:04:45,300 --> 01:04:43,360
I think only I I think one time my

1594
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:45,310
artwork was turned down because the guy

1595
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:48,250
said it was too polished that's a good

1596
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:51,370
thing to hear I guess yeah I guess it

1597
01:04:55,470 --> 01:04:53,410
was for uh for a Bigfoot book and I

1598
01:04:57,390 --> 01:04:55,480
guess you know some of the people they

1599
01:05:00,720 --> 01:04:57,400
they prefer certain styles for a certain

1600
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:00,730
work so I'm learning to adapt myself so

1601
01:05:04,020 --> 01:05:02,650
I'm always open for a challenge if

1602
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:04,030
someone's got like a bit of a challenge

1603
01:05:09,060 --> 01:05:06,850
if we're like I'm always down for that

1604
01:05:14,430 --> 01:05:09,070
because I love trying to expand my skill

1605
01:05:17,850 --> 01:05:14,440
set and and trying new things I love

1606
01:05:20,610 --> 01:05:17,860
that Chris hey man this has been so

1607
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:20,620
refreshing for me to get you finally get

1608
01:05:24,300 --> 01:05:22,690
you on the show this definitely will not

1609
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:24,310
be the last time you're on somewhere in

1610
01:05:29,940 --> 01:05:26,170
the skies I could tell you that right

1611
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:29,950
now but um I highly suggest my listeners

1612
01:05:35,250 --> 01:05:32,170
go subscribe to the conspire Theory

1613
01:05:37,380 --> 01:05:35,260
podcast right now go to the back

1614
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:37,390
archives and listen to some of these

1615
01:05:39,660 --> 01:05:38,170
guests

1616
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:39,670
you've had some really amazing

1617
01:05:45,900 --> 01:05:41,770
conversations and I'm just beginning to

1618
01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:45,910
dig into those so I try to put stuff on

1619
01:05:49,890 --> 01:05:46,960
there because there is some stuff that's

1620
01:05:51,870 --> 01:05:49,900
that's you know raunchy humor that's not

1621
01:05:53,970 --> 01:05:51,880
gonna be for everybody but I try to let

1622
01:05:55,770 --> 01:05:53,980
people know upfront within the first two

1623
01:05:58,080 --> 01:05:55,780
minutes of the podcast that yeah this is

1624
01:06:00,870 --> 01:05:58,090
gonna be raunchy humor if you're you

1625
01:06:03,660 --> 01:06:00,880
know easily offended or can't take you

1626
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:03,670
know goofy jokes then this isn't this

1627
01:06:08,580 --> 01:06:05,530
episode isn't for you it's okay you skip

1628
01:06:11,250 --> 01:06:08,590
those I have you know episodes where I

1629
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:11,260
talk specifically to other authors who

1630
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:12,610
publish books and we talk up

1631
01:06:17,010 --> 01:06:15,370
specifically about writing and we talk

1632
01:06:18,690 --> 01:06:17,020
about you know interesting writing stuff

1633
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:18,700
and tropes and characters and all that

1634
01:06:22,740 --> 01:06:21,130
stuff and and I love talking to writers

1635
01:06:24,570 --> 01:06:22,750
and authors and artists and stuff like

1636
01:06:26,210 --> 01:06:24,580
that and then there are other ones where

1637
01:06:29,550 --> 01:06:26,220
I talk to you know paranormal

1638
01:06:31,980 --> 01:06:29,560
experiences and and experimental offers

1639
01:06:34,290 --> 01:06:31,990
and we talk about you know stuff like

1640
01:06:35,940 --> 01:06:34,300
what's going on in the field and all

1641
01:06:38,310 --> 01:06:35,950
that interesting stuff like that so I

1642
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:38,320
try to make sure that people know

1643
01:06:43,110 --> 01:06:40,450
upfront what they're getting in the

1644
01:06:45,270 --> 01:06:43,120
episode so I don't want people to come

1645
01:06:47,130 --> 01:06:45,280
up in and say oh I was caught by

1646
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:47,140
surprise it's like no you walked into

1647
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:49,810
that but there is there is something for

1648
01:06:54,180 --> 01:06:52,690
you out there and just but just be aware

1649
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:54,190
just be cautious of what you're

1650
01:06:57,900 --> 01:06:54,930
listening to

1651
01:06:59,490 --> 01:06:57,910
absolutely Chris thank you so much man

1652
01:07:01,290 --> 01:06:59,500
for coming on someone this guy's today

1653
01:07:02,900 --> 01:07:01,300
yeah it was a pleasure a real pleasure

1654
01:07:05,460 --> 01:07:02,910
[Music]

1655
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:05,470
that's it for this week's episode again

1656
01:07:09,930 --> 01:07:07,570
be sure to subscribe to the conspire a

1657
01:07:12,270 --> 01:07:09,940
theory podcast where ever you get

1658
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:12,280
podcasts and be sure to check out Chris

1659
01:07:17,970 --> 01:07:14,530
homes patreon page to find all of his

1660
01:07:24,260 --> 01:07:17,980
artwork visit patreon.com slash Sci

1661
01:07:24,270 --> 01:07:32,720
[Music]

1662
01:07:38,310 --> 01:07:35,940
it helps us gain visibility and find new

1663
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:38,320
listeners I've started a new video

1664
01:07:42,710 --> 01:07:40,000
series over on the youtube channel

1665
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:42,720
called somewhere in the skies case files

1666
01:07:48,630 --> 01:07:45,130
these will be many episodes where I

1667
01:07:50,730 --> 01:07:48,640
break down my favorite UFO cases just

1668
01:07:53,370 --> 01:07:50,740
head on over to youtube and

1669
01:07:55,340 --> 01:07:53,380
Ben Ryan Sprague or you can find the

1670
01:07:57,630 --> 01:07:55,350
link in the show notes for this episode

1671
01:07:59,340 --> 01:07:57,640
make sure to follow us on twitter at

1672
01:08:01,710 --> 01:07:59,350
somewhere skies and Instagram at

1673
01:08:04,109 --> 01:08:01,720
somewhere sky spot I'll see you here

1674
01:08:06,140 --> 01:08:04,119
next week and remember keep your feet on

1675
01:08:09,390 --> 01:08:06,150
the ground but never stop searching

1676
01:08:09,859 --> 01:08:09,400
somewhere in the skies and wash your

1677
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:09,869
hands

1678
01:08:52,420 --> 01:08:12,010
yeah I'm talking

1679
01:08:55,270 --> 01:08:52,430
[Music]

1680
01:08:57,740 --> 01:08:55,280
[Applause]

1681
01:08:59,510 --> 01:08:57,750
somewhere in the skies is produced by

1682
01:09:01,700 --> 01:08:59,520
Third Kind productions in association

1683
01:09:03,230 --> 01:09:01,710
with the entertainment one podcast